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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 16:39:56 GMT
PS no hate, just love.
If I were to drop a few epic-leg feats I could add epic str and also use sally to start with 22 str, if you'd like so you wouldn't cringe every time I say unitank hahaha ;D
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Post by chirality on Sept 16, 2014 19:46:56 GMT
well if you like the elf koly idea, here's another one: make a ranger instead of an assassin that's built like a ranger...you even use a ranger subrace...you basically made a typical wemic dex/uni ranger...with tier 2 bab and lacking both ranger buffs as well as assin rogskills... creating a dex/uni wemic ranger instead of dex/uni wemic assassin would result in virtually the same advantages (dw dex instakiller with uni offstat) with none of the disadvantages (forcing square peg into circular hole w/ xppen/subrace for wrong class; having assin hitdie, bab and class skills, each worse than ranger) well, ranger might as well be koly i guess, eh, 2ez...also another option could be to put that ftr splash to work for you w/ weap spec tree, in exchange disarm
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 19:57:01 GMT
I already have unitank rangers, that's why I made this. I like not having to have them as favoured enemies. And a pandect would be mandatory on a ranger probably because of the crap feats, don't use that straight face on me... I don't want no seriousness here.
Rangers are indeed sturdier, easier to manage and nice.
To everyone looking at this build, yes rangers are probably better. Only make this if you want a fun assassin and like the red smoke it produces when you mortal strike something.
Lol I can imagine forcing square peg into a hole, (insert image) but isn't that the fun of it all?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 19:59:35 GMT
Disarm is a must have for all decent ab tanks imo. Disarmed creatures look so peaceful and slightly idiotic flailing there hands about the place in an attempt to harm you. It's like watching a penguin try to fly, it's just not going to work.
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Post by chirality on Sept 16, 2014 21:25:25 GMT
Lol I can imagine forcing square peg into a hole, (insert image) but isn't that the fun of it all?
yes, definitely...those are my favorite builds too...i was just sayin!
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Post by desocupado on Sept 16, 2014 22:03:25 GMT
Disarm is a must have for all decent ab tanks imo Not the case, unless you get divine power.(bab 16 lbab 12) Assassins can have (over a ranger): BG saves Rogue splash/ full skills Wm splash More damage on in main hand.(penetrating strike) Assassin Issues: Either dual wield (monk) or rogue splash (open lock/disarm) Needs both LSA parry and discipline for more tanking effectiveness (dexters can use ESF parry to reach 127) Low hp Derail: I wonder if it's worth to splash Harper for 1DC cost.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 6:46:51 GMT
I still think disarm is a must have, no matter what you say. Seeing it in action from various types of melee's, seeing a tank without it just makes me sad. Since it is so effective and has no essence points like shifters. You don't need divine power.. like I said I was disarming hell mobs at least at on this assassin at 1x with dual wield. Only needed to go sword and board for pf's. The boost you get from para disarm and wf makes almost any tank able to disarm so there isn't much point not going for it. At least imo again . Yes the splash for saves would have been nice but since its fighter you get enough bonus feats to take what you need. Rogue skills are also nice, and I guess most people assumes the sin will have them. I think the most annoying part about assassins are the stupidly low hp unless you invest in a high con, which is hard when trying to get a respectable secondary stat, works nice on jugger str version, or at least used to. Rangers are just as good for instakilling, get a nice solid HP but their conceal and AC is slightly lower then an assassin. The harper splash is interesting, since the moliated boots are actually really nice, and it gives extra brownie points for cool vfx, what class combo would you go for?
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Post by desocupado on Sept 17, 2014 9:48:16 GMT
The problem with Harper would be losing dc, and requiring a non prestige full bab class. Fighter gives feats, ranger qualifies for assassin without subrace skills bonuses.
So fighter Harper str with oc/dc, preferably with halberd + large size - If you use a pandec of disarm get: Extend spell and ESF parry (moving feats around)
Also consider paragon of adaptiveness II, as less layer penalty is very good for assassin, for dc in deep layers (and immunity/skill bonuses when relevant). Keep water breathing if you lack PW
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Post by tacpilot on Sept 17, 2014 16:54:16 GMT
I deff gotta find some of these ... Do the bonuses stack ??
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Post by kingcamaro on Sept 17, 2014 17:08:11 GMT
I deff gotta find some of these ... Do the bonuses stack ?? No
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Post by chirality on Sept 17, 2014 18:22:10 GMT
I think the most annoying part about assassins are the stupidly low hp unless you invest in a high con Funny--I think the most annoying part about assassins is how they got a pretty short stick (not the shortest end of the stick, BK has tight grip on that one), and even tho just "generally" it's short, what makes it worse is especial in comparison with their counterpart/colleague/competitor ranger which got a nice fat stick. HP is such a trivial inconsequential nonissue really? Rangers are just as good for instakilling, get a nice solid HP but their conceal and AC is slightly lower then an assassin. Yes, assuming all other things equal (including capped-out hide), ranger has less conceal than assin. The AC thing, no clue where you get this from, and too broad to be a substantial claim...what sort of assassin do we compare to, and what sort of ranger? well, ranger basically has 3 types, str dex zen, str and dex are both dw+ranger ac and easily better than some funny monksplash dw assin build ( ) and overall comparable to assin; only sword/board assin would beat this, as for dw or 2h assin, definitely not, and i think avg str ranger ac is still more than avg str assin ac, and last but not least zens have more ac than they know what to do with, beating assin except small assdag dex w/shield generally? Anyway "slightly lower" ac/conceal is a joke considering rgr access to crit imm for str, max parry regardless, the hp thing you mention, minishunt, even fom > exp retreat, overall wow, remarkably more tanky, but assin fails to have badass enough offense to deserve to be so glassy, when ranger is a "non"glass cannon that excels in offense just as well as any glass cannon. Anyway I didn't mean to start the asn vs rgr rant again but, just to be clear, it's a bit difficult to tally up assin as having barely, if any, net advantage vs ranger, which is why taking advantage of the few inherent assin advantages is nice (some sort of splash, as you took and deso discuss; picker (ranger can search anyway); err penstrike dmg i won't even consider since it doesn't beat soak and is easily suboptimal at best and irrelevant at worst), but the main differences and sore spots for whiners is quite different from what you mention, the ac and conceal and hp? nah, that's all whatever, it's fine, all 3 nonissues (except hp also when considering ranger +con LLs and assin doesn't even get LL statbonus, so yeah once that's combined with 6 more base hp, it does indeed look sad for little rogue-ninjaboy), instead consider --bab --class skills --spellbook/random fluff (evas/imp evas free) --setgear Also to be clear I did not intend to make it like "assin sux, just make ranger, ranger is so much better, dont bother making assassin, btw lets start arguing rgr assin again", it was more to point out the funny situation you have w/ a wannabe ranger using ranger sub but just choosing assin instead
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Post by KnightErrant on Sept 17, 2014 18:32:16 GMT
I think the most annoying part about assassins are the stupidly low hp unless you invest in a high con Funny--I think the most annoying part about assassins is how they got a pretty short stick (not the shortest end of the stick, BK has tight grip on that one), and even tho just "generally" it's short, what makes it worse is especial in comparison with their counterpart/colleague/competitor ranger which got a nice fat stick. HP is such a trivial inconsequential nonissue really? Rangers are just as good for instakilling, get a nice solid HP but their conceal and AC is slightly lower then an assassin. Yes, assuming all other things equal (including capped-out hide), ranger has less conceal than assin. The AC thing, no clue where you get this from, and too broad to be a substantial claim...what sort of assassin do we compare to, and what sort of ranger? well, ranger basically has 3 types, str dex zen, str and dex are both dw+ranger ac and easily better than some funny monksplash dw assin build ( ) and overall comparable to assin; only sword/board assin would beat this, as for dw or 2h assin, definitely not, and i think avg str ranger ac is still more than avg str assin ac, and last but not least zens have more ac than they know what to do with, beating assin except small assdag dex w/shield generally? Anyway "slightly lower" ac/conceal is a joke considering rgr access to crit imm for str, max parry regardless, the hp thing you mention, minishunt, even fom > exp retreat, overall wow, remarkably more tanky, but assin fails to have badass enough offense to deserve to be so glassy, when ranger is a "non"glass cannon that excels in offense just as well as any glass cannon. Anyway I didn't mean to start the asn vs rgr rant again but, just to be clear, it's a bit difficult to tally up assin as having barely, if any, net advantage vs ranger, which is why taking advantage of the few inherent assin advantages is nice (some sort of splash, as you took and deso discuss; picker (ranger can search anyway); err penstrike dmg i won't even consider since it doesn't beat soak and is easily suboptimal at best and irrelevant at worst), but the main differences and sore spots for whiners is quite different from what you mention, the ac and conceal and hp? nah, that's all whatever, it's fine, all 3 nonissues (except hp also when considering ranger +con LLs and assin doesn't even get LL statbonus, so yeah once that's combined with 6 more base hp, it does indeed look sad for little rogue-ninjaboy), instead consider --bab --class skills --spellbook/random fluff (evas/imp evas free) --setgear Also to be clear I did not intend to make it like "assin sux, just make ranger, ranger is so much better, dont bother making assassin, btw lets start arguing rgr assin again", it was more to point out the funny situation you have w/ a wannabe ranger using ranger sub but just choosing assin instead I've been beating this dead horse for years now...lol...summed up nicely, I won't add anything more since it will just make me angry......ok I'll add one more...Rangers can CS with their offhand and Assassins can't MS offhand... KE.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 18:46:54 GMT
So many quotes omg HP is a really nice thing to have when you get nasty festers etc.. and heals cant get to you. I still prefer assassins for MS'ing over CS mainly because of the look and the fact you don't even have to use a command. The rangers conceal is indeed a little lower than a sins, and the ac is slightly lower for any non Zen rangers, but that's not a great comparison. I've already acknowledged that rangers are superior but I made this because I didn't have an assassin yet. I don't know why you keep pushing this whole derail ranger is better blah blah blah.. even though its kinda true. Put that stuff in the drunken monk. If I didn't already have rangers I would make more , not many people play assassins either which is nice, as it adds some flavour to the group. Salty flavour. Before anyone else says make a ranger because they are better, nevaaaa!, rangers are goody two shoes, assassins are evil!.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 18:48:05 GMT
Can someone start a ranger vs assassin thread please... I want to sit back and eat my popcorn while being entertained.
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Post by desocupado on Sept 17, 2014 21:26:41 GMT
Can someone start a ranger vs assassin thread please... I want to sit back and eat my popcorn while being entertained. I've done that twice, I think. Tough I agree on called shot being boring to use.
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