|
Post by hemmy on Dec 27, 2014 15:44:51 GMT
Made some further changes to the build, ended up swapping out environmental adaptivity feat for paragon stability feat. Though the adaptivity feat can be of some help, I believe that further survivability is more important. As a monk this build does not have to worry about things like his weapon being slagged, and also as a monk he gets "all" the necessary skills one needs to survive skill checks as class skills, hence he will have maxed out skills. Also his saving throws are well higher than is needed to survive most any check, even with reduced checks from penalties. What he can't survive, for sure, is being knocked down and stomped on by a pit fiend, or some other nasty, that has paragon dc added to their knock down from a paragon mob. I know he most certainly will do poorly if that happens. And whilst I did consider losing a dex to take the adaptivity, that would leave him with an uneven end dex of 65. I think we can all agree that a single feat is worth another ab, and ac point. Some still might disagree, but being left with uneven dex is simply not an option.
You could drop a strength feat, but again you would have the same problem, and as both strength, and dex contribute greatly to this builds survival, that likely would not be wise.
With paragon anchoring, and stability, and a final strength of 40 he will be very difficult to knock down, and won't fail many strength checks if in a party with the correct buffs, if any. Been running him in oinos and on hell runs, and he breezes through. Have had no strength related problems after taking anchoring, and he rarely gets hit.Oinos has also been more or less a breeze, with the only thing I need to worry about being Greater Glab's, and all I need to do then is use an item which casts level 45 freedom of movement, and he simply beats it to death. Have also been surrounded by 6, even 7 enemies, many of them greaters, and again had no problems. Whilst you don't have the same penalties as a deep hell run, I have gotten some idea of his survivability, and it is very, very high.
Play style for this toon requires an active player though, as you have to be conscious of what gloves you are using to max out damage. Otherwise very easy to play, and by far the toughest monk I have played to date.
|
|
|
Post by tomaan on Jan 9, 2015 6:07:00 GMT
I, too, am a big fan of monks. I only play tanks and monk is one of my favorite tanks. There are many ways to skin a cat on HG, which is why you get such a wide range of opinions on builds -- most of them are "correct", but that doesn't necessarily mean that others are "wrong". For that reason, take everything I say with a few grains of salt. And now that I've gotten through my disclaimer, here are a few thoughts: 1. You didn't include Demi bonuses or Asmo gear in your final stats -- are you planning on hitting level 80 before getting demi? I ask because most of us old-skoolers factor at least x1 demi into our builds. For a monk, it means +5 AC (+2 Dex, +2 Wis, +3 AC on Asmo gear). You also get access to Asmo gear (usually available during split because a lot of hell runners already have anything), which means crit immunity, +16 to stats, or +4 to str/dex/con checks. I know Nessus runs are getting harder to find, but they're well worth the effort (you can even try scheduling one here). Please forgive my ignorance if I'm not reading this correctly (and ignore this entire point ) 2. Wisdom is a monk's best friend -- whether you're building a stunner or a "true" tank (i.e. survivor), Wisdom will help more than it hurts, even if you swap it for Dex. This is especially true for your play-style, as your wis enchantment bonus will apply to all your gloves, regardless of the attack bonus (+16 on DB gloves = juicy damage!). Personally, I'd take it from strength and go near-uni -- you get the points back when you hit demi anyway and paragon feats (or Asmo belt) will help you cover most checks. Like I said above, however, there are a lot of ways to build an effective toon on HG and yours is certainly one of them. Well done.
|
|
|
Post by Torin on Jan 9, 2015 9:05:04 GMT
Added to our wiki. Thanks for posting a build!
|
|
|
Post by hemmy on Jan 13, 2015 14:15:34 GMT
As far as making Demi part of my my build I did not do so. This was intentional, as the build is made to be a solo survivor. Hence going demi, or doing demi was not part of my considerations. Indeed I know what demi will add, and I did speak of this in some of my prior posts, but in regards to the build I only wanted to make the build about "the build." I really don't make demi part of any build I do, though someone else certainly can choose to. However I do not. One reason for this is that I live in a place where it is hard enough to get online to do hell runs, let alone find the right one I need to get the next tag I need. I have met other people who have this same problem. Hence most of my game play is at times when not a lot of people are on. That being the case I needed a rough and tough toon that had high survival,and could still do some decent damage. As to your comments on wisdom you are not the first to speak of this, and I addressed the wisdom issue in full in prior posts. Please peruse them at your leisure. This toon is designed "without" demi taken into consideration, since I have yet to demi, and have been playing for a while now. Others share this same problem, and cannot afford to wait until they can demi to have a good survivable toon. I have played this toon in a dozen hell runs now and had no real problems. Also the extra wisdom you speak of would not help with this particular build, and in fact would create more problems with making strength checks. I spoke of this in depthly in prior posts. I know it is easy to second guess builds, but I have been playing this toon for a while now, and with no real problems except the rare knock down. Again, a strength issue, and one that has only happened so far when in a party doing deeper hell runs. It does not happen often, but it does happen, and will be a small issue until I take paragon stability, and of course get a little more str if I ever do demi it . For strength to be any lower would pretty much nuke this builds effectiveness as a solo survivor, and defeat its whole purpose. Indeed your point about demi stat points adding to the builds toughness does have merit, however this is a non demi build, and it will be even tougher still with even more strength from making demi. This has all factored been factored in, I simply did not include these things in the build, as I did not want people to focus on such. Also keep in mind that strength factors into damage also, and +14 and +16 gloves are not that hard to acquire. Again, it is very easy to second guess builds, however I know from experience, and rebuilding it a fair number of times that this build is perfect just as it is. This toon has done it's rounds in Oino's and nothing there has been able to kill it, and he has only died once in hells, from you guessed it, a knock down :/ Sure I could dump a little more into wis, up his stun dc a bit, and get some more stuns, but in truth he already can stun a fair amount of stuff in oinos, and if he ever goes demi he will get even more dc for stun at that time as well. Double demi and that last wisdom point I will get from paragon levels will add +3 to my wis modifier, with asmo gear adding another point for +4 wisdom modifier added on to what I currently have now. Hence I really don't need any more stun dc, seeing as his is respectable right now, and will only get better without me having to deduct anything from his strength. Also keep in mind that this build calls for a stunning fist pandect, which also is not too hard to get, and will greatly improve ones stunning fist dc. I addressed the wisdom issue a great deal in some of my follow up posts for this build, so ya might wanna check em out. Thanks for the feedback.
|
|
|
Post by hemmy on Jan 13, 2015 14:32:17 GMT
You are welcome
|
|
|
Post by tomaan on Jan 18, 2015 18:40:03 GMT
Not second guessing anything dude, I'm speaking from first-hand experience -- I've played several versions of this build. Besides, as I mentioned in my initial post, there's lots of ways to skin a cat on HG...that's why you have so many opinions and why the server is so much fun.
I also read all of every thread before I post; not saying there's anything wrong with your build, just suggesting things you aren't considering, such as:
1) don't think of demi as a "requirement", think of it as an "enhancement". You can build a toon to survive most areas of the server at level 60, much less level 80 (especially as a monk) and then use demi bonuses and gear to make your toon uber. No need to sit around waiting for anything, just take layers as they come up (especially on weekends) and you'll reach single (maybe even double) well before you reach level 80. Since most people already have asmo gear, getting it in loot split isn't an issue.
2) there's a reason you've heard so many of us recommend more wisdom, and it's not stunning fist DC.
3) you may be overestimating your strength needs...especially with paragon feats. In other words, the benefit you're getting may not be worth the cost.
Still, like I've said before, this doesn't mean there's anything "wrong" with your build, it's fine as is.
|
|
|
Post by hemmy on Jan 30, 2015 8:30:34 GMT
Post by tomaan on Jan 19, 2015 at 2:40am Not second guessing anything dude,
Never said you were. Not sure why you felt the need to post that you were not. Hmm.
2) there's a reason you've heard so many of us recommend more wisdom, and it's not stunning fist DC.
I 'm well aware of all the purposes wisdom serves, and as I said before this is a soloer build. If you wish to do more party play, or live in an area where it is possible to be online when all the big runs are happening, then go ahead and dump some more into wisdom, however you will get knocked down a lot more. At least you will if you are not in a position to demi the toon a couple of times. If you in such a position fine, however until you get it demi it will get knocked down quite a bit more, and won't be able to do nearly as much soloing, which was part of my purpose in building it. Getting knocked down in a party can be remedied. If it happens when you are running solo, poof, you dead. After running it for a while, and doing some rebuilds I got it just right.
I'm speaking from first-hand experience -- I've played several versions of this build. Besides, as I mentioned in my initial post, there's lots of ways to skin a cat on HG...that's why you have so many opinions and why the server is so much fun.
I am not going to address this as such a claim is impossible to prove, and the build itself was posted very recently.
3) you may be overestimating your strength needs...especially with paragon feats. In other words, the benefit you're getting may not be worth the cost.
I have played this build quite bit. I know what the values, i.e strengths and weaknesses are, and are not. I experimented with it quite a bit, and not in the test chamber either. The strength needs are exactly what is required, and not more. Can the strength needs be met by going the demi route? Sure, but the name of this build is what it is for a reason, and not everyone who plays lives in a part of the world where it is easy to get online when the hell runs happen regularly. Thank you for you concerns though, and for posting them a second time.
Still, like I've said before, this doesn't mean there's anything "wrong" with your build, it's fine as is.
Yes it is. Take care.
|
|
|
Post by tomaan on Jan 30, 2015 16:47:47 GMT
Post by tomaan on Jan 19, 2015 at 2:40am Not second guessing anything dude,Never said you were. Not sure why you felt the need to post that you were not. Hmm Perhaps this will refresh your memory: Again, it is very easy to second guess builds, Enjoy!
|
|
|
Post by hemmy on Jan 31, 2015 1:13:35 GMT
I was not speaking to you, hence the use of the word "anybody." Anybody can second guess anything. It was not directed at you, so I don't know why you took it in such a way and decided to personally reply to it. I don't have a problem with second guessing anyhow, so second guess away
|
|
|
Post by hemmy on Jan 31, 2015 1:18:17 GMT
What are the values?
Poliwhirl the values, i.e. those things that are positives are posted on page one. Please read the builds strengths and weaknesses contained on the original build page.
|
|
|
Post by reelroleplayer on Feb 7, 2015 17:37:52 GMT
Great build. One thing I really like about it is that it's playable from level one all the way up, I usually prefer to do this since I think it gives you more insight into your role, the build strengths/weaknesses, etc. Good stuff!
|
|