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Post by cathedralmaster on Jan 22, 2016 6:18:19 GMT
Okay, I get the picture. No tanks. Make a Sorc (or I assume a Wizard), Druid, Cleric, or Bard. So I'll make a Sorc. What's a good Sorc build?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2016 7:16:19 GMT
The 'Bane' build by Test ( here) is a solid start, just drop Greater Ruin (and thus no need to take Spellcraft to 50) and replace it with Extra Spell Known: Level 6 to add Chain Lightning. His posted spellbook might need a *tiny* bit of tweaking (for the lower Spell levels, anyway), but it is mostly pretty good - however note that it's an endgame spellbook (for Hells + Abyss), when you are leveling the toon you will want to take the spells that are directly useful to you. Edit: Stats need to be tweaked, see other posts in this thread.
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Post by chainlink on Jan 22, 2016 9:58:09 GMT
What races do you have access to Cath? and welcome back long time no see, I would say where's your dragon tank but my ploder always hated it as I seemed to target you instead of enemies with monotonous regularity
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Post by chirality on Jan 22, 2016 16:07:45 GMT
Important features to strive for in hells build:
LSF+ in each critical DC-based school (trans nec illus evo)
Max Cha
14 base dex
Empower spell
Knowledge of each critical insta spell (Weird, CoD, disint, + sunburst for LLs)
Knowledge of EV/premo/mantle
Knowledge of RG/flense/BC and either mords or carry mord scrolls/rod at all times, no excuses
Fill in the gaps with non-orb dmg spells (clap, dbf, coldball, combust, melf) and utility like evard, Break Enchantment, Remove Curse, weapon buffs, etc
As long as you have these features you can skip/swap/experiment whatever spells you want and it will not impact your hells performance, nor your ability to dominate any lowbie LL run. Keep in mind that other than the scenario of someone trading cold ball for chain lightning, there is not much downside to taking endgame spells such as banish, horrid, PWK. The alternate spells simply aren't that great anyway, so while having them provides questionable advantage for hells-cycling toon, it doesn't require any sacrifice either. Even though horrid is useless outside abos/abyss, there is no amazing 8 to take instead (swap around fire cloud/polar ray/bb8 at your whim); even though your banish DC sucks, there is no other uber 7 that you miss out on; even though PWK is useless outside abyss, there is no uber 9 you miss out. Likewise, you should have gust; although you might never use it to kill a fume with bad DC and a real party, it's not like you lose anything by taking it.
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Post by wollstonecraft on Jan 23, 2016 1:20:42 GMT
A couple questions about Test's spellbook: 1) Is Energy Drain really that important? Sorcs already get channeling for free. I know that there are a few mobs that can be ED'd to death, but isn't there a more versatile spell at level 9? Perhaps ED is more important on an open subrace build.
2) PWK without foci? Is this a good idea? Would the build's efficacy with PWK be dependent on a spell focus augment, or some other piece of gear? I just read Rajah's analysis, so nevermind. 3) See 2) for same with Banish. 4) Bale mentioned taking Chain Lightning at 6th. Isn't Ball Lightning a better choice? BL is more predictable and less loot breaky. Are the damages comparable?
- WSCraft
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Post by chirality on Jan 23, 2016 2:43:04 GMT
Banish DC is problematic on some abyss fumes, with paragons in particular having very high saves. Most other targets are quite easy to banish. The ones that aren't will be targeted by the full save-dropping arsenal of the party (including ed/channel), and you hope for low rolls. Lacking ED would make your banishing less self-sufficient, as well as more costly slot-wise, even on the few that are drain imm. ED is a necessity. It's important for helping land instakills (less your own than others'; your own banish is the spell badly needing the most). This is the primary use, and it's valuable and improves efficiency. Killing via level drain is rarely required or useful. There are times when it is valuable (when doing so would be faster than alternatives). ED is no less important for a pure sorc with autochannel than for anyone else; the benefit of 2 spent 9s for +2 spell power for the casting of several subsequent spells is far greater than the benefit of using 2 addition 9s with each subsequent cast (with channel 3 on). Spontaneous casting also allows proper application of ED without any hassle or wasted slots. Chain is an extremely niche spell with 2 targets (goristro + alkilith), neither of which really require it, and are dealt with by other classes, but which mage doesn't have as high-damage option to use against without this spell. At a time when there is no high-damage tank holding a slash weapon and/or a druid with uber dc, these targets may prove to waste a large amount of time killing, and at this occasion a mage with chain lightning will end the encounter far more quickly by spamming chain lightning than other damage type choices. I only mentioned the example in the 1st place because horrids, banish, and pwk doesn't conflict with any useful spells. I guess the ball lightning question is a joke If serious: absolutely not
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Post by cathedralmaster on Jan 23, 2016 3:27:06 GMT
What races do you have access to Cath? and welcome back long time no see, I would say where's your dragon tank but my ploder always hated it as I seemed to target you instead of enemies with monotonous regularity
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2016 6:40:11 GMT
What races do you have access to Cath? and welcome back long time no see, I would say where's your dragon tank but my ploder always hated it as I seemed to target you instead of enemies with monotonous regularity <Pic> Radiance Genasi makes the best Sorcerer, it's also the highest demand race-book on the server these days so congrats on already having access to what is arguably the strongest build on Higher Ground
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Post by Torin on Jan 23, 2016 7:43:47 GMT
Check out the wiki: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Builds I would go pure sorc and Rad Gen. Max Cahrisama The biggest choises are spell school and spell book.
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Post by desocupado on Jan 23, 2016 9:08:10 GMT
Chain is an extremely niche spell with 2 targets (goristro + alkilith), neither of which really require it, and are dealt with by other classes, but which mage doesn't have as high-damage option to use against without this spell. At a time when there is no high-damage tank holding a slash weapon and/or a druid with uber dc, these targets may prove to waste a large amount of time killing, and at this occasion a mage with chain lightning will end the encounter far more quickly by spamming chain lightning than other damage type choices. I only mentioned the example in the 1st place because horrids, banish, and pwk doesn't conflict with any useful spells. I guess the ball lightning question is a joke If serious: absolutely not Wouldn't flensing work on both slash damage targets? (Memory rusty on that) Personally I enjoy having mord meteor grab weird and ED on 9. As Meteor really helps on the PF and male in hells.
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Post by woqued on Jan 23, 2016 9:41:20 GMT
Chain is an extremely niche spell with 2 targets (goristro + alkilith), neither of which really require it, and are dealt with by other classes, but which mage doesn't have as high-damage option to use against without this spell. At a time when there is no high-damage tank holding a slash weapon and/or a druid with uber dc, these targets may prove to waste a large amount of time killing, and at this occasion a mage with chain lightning will end the encounter far more quickly by spamming chain lightning than other damage type choices. I only mentioned the example in the 1st place because horrids, banish, and pwk doesn't conflict with any useful spells. I guess the ball lightning question is a joke If serious: absolutely not Wouldn't flensing work on both slash damage targets? (Memory rusty on that) Personally I enjoy having mord meteor grab weird and ED on 9. As Meteor really helps on the PF and male in hells. Flensing works but because it is also a tick spell you maximize both damage and spellslot efficiency by using 1 flensing and then CL on these targets. In ideal scenario both of these mobs do get IOM'd by a druid, but that's beside the point. Chain lightning gives you alternative spell selection when dealing with certain problem mobs with damage; such as laghlatlis, myrmixus, sibriex. You don't wanna waste all your 9s spamming thunderclaps on these sonic/elec mobs; having the possibility to use 8s when you feel you'll run out of 9s soon is invaluable. Meteors are very inefficient 9 use in hells though - flensing/melfs/dbfb on malebs and rg/freezesphere on pfs is vastly better slot efficiency and damage - even more so since mixed maleb/pf spawns are so rare. Grabs on the other hand can be very useful, especially on 0-1x mages.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Jan 23, 2016 14:22:58 GMT
How important is it to go pure sorc vs. one paladin level?
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Post by chainlink on Jan 23, 2016 14:46:02 GMT
Pure all the way due to the automatic channelling you get for free, you could take a paladin level and reincarnate to pure at later point if you want to make 40 to 60 slightly less painful I guess.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Jan 24, 2016 1:25:15 GMT
What's the present thinking on skills? Is there any point in putting points in discipline since it will only hit around 30?
According to the wiki, persuade can lower SR. Any point to that given mords? And it's not listed in the documentation summary thread.
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Post by Werehound Silverfang on Jan 24, 2016 3:06:43 GMT
Persuade SR decrease stacks, so it's very, very nice if you have a high skill level.
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