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Post by cathedralmaster on Mar 8, 2016 0:16:41 GMT
Which is the more popular choice these days?
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Post by drunkenboastor on Mar 8, 2016 3:21:23 GMT
Robes. Stygia +1 dc is best in my opinion.
Plate can be fun in most legendary runs though, using the aoe fod plate.
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Post by condude on Mar 8, 2016 4:38:34 GMT
I, for one, am a huge fan of the plate. A little known trick that is fun, especially for LLs, is to fill the last 20 slots of your autocaster with AOE FoDs. When contingency is triggered, your autocaster will recast ALL the spells on it, including the 20 FoDs, effectively killing everything around you not immune to neg damage. This allows for some suicide bombing goodness!
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Post by simpetar on Mar 8, 2016 7:53:59 GMT
Robes give you more AC and open up the loot lich route (you are probaly going to need it for end game parties, "just" PMs are meh compared to other arcanes). Genie PM in robes also has 3 more feats than Negatai PM in plate (SP, GSP and no need to take Autostill 3); you seem to have access to both.
Plate PM has the illusion of wider gear selection, but there is little competitive gear to pick from. Ultimately you will most likely be stuck with Plate of Anubis + Blaze of Selune (or its randomized equivalent).
EDIT: Oh and one more thing: Elf Genie (a.k.a. robed loot lich) gets free sleep immunity and levitation. You will never have to equip PW ring, because lich tranformation provides you with water breathing.
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Post by Matt on Mar 8, 2016 9:58:38 GMT
Robes are the way to go imo, Plate FoD Aura is too small, and short range. It's ok for maps where creatures are small and group close, but why would you want the extra KB if its used on insta mobs anyway (unless you're using it to dmg kill things). A robed PM can net up to around 135+ ac in decent burs. And max out at around 148 ish with x2 asmo item etc...
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Post by desocupado on Mar 8, 2016 12:38:33 GMT
Robes are the way to go imo, Plate FoD Aura is too small, and short range. It's ok for maps where creatures are small and group close, but why would you want the extra KB if its used on insta mobs anyway (unless you're using it to dmg kill things). A robed PM can net up to around 135+ ac in decent burs. And max out at around 148 ish with x2 asmo item etc... How much ac for a similarly geared plate pm?
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Post by Matt on Mar 8, 2016 13:04:21 GMT
I believe plate PM's can cap at around 138 ish, provided gird and all. Better phys imms, loss of +1 dc to 6 and below or +1sp from a nice wrap. I think my 1x Robed PM, with asmo ammy (not optimal arti) is at 140 ac.
Nice trick, loss of quite a few slots, but if you've got well auged/nice setup you can use a Sussurus of Sorcere, cast EV on it and use it from the sequencer to further provide 80% conceal with PSF Illusion
*edit - sorry forgot to mention, i'm assuming you go genie elf, start with 16+ dex, get +4 able learning tumble in LL from elf and to get high 140's PSF abj for a good mage armour
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Post by simpetar on Mar 8, 2016 13:20:21 GMT
*edit - sorry forgot to mention, i'm assuming you go genie elf, start with 16+ dex, get +4 able learning tumble in LL from elf and to get high 140's PSF abj for a good mage armour Not very relevant, Prescient's Guards / Spellguards have 18 armor AC by default, 20 when girded. Also, Able Learner does very little, cross-class Tumble is all PMs need to get maximum potential and Bone Skin will do the rest, just like RDDs. The AC difference comes from dexterity. Robed PM needs only 32 dexterity (buffed) to match plate PM: heavy plates have 8 base armor AC and 3 max dex bonus, for robed PM Prescient's Guard / Spellguards do the job. The only thing you have to pay attention to as robed PM is not to get dexterity *too* high (at or above 25 base Dex), or the bonus from Bone Skin will be halved. However AC is not PM main concern. They are sturdy enough already, with the best crit immunity a PC can have, specific immunity to Stun, Confusion (from arti), (usually) Sleep and (usually) one free ring slot. What matters is casting capabilities, as for any other caster, and in that regard robed PMs are superior.
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Post by Matt on Mar 8, 2016 13:31:36 GMT
Will have to do some testing, i felt like my elf pm had more ac from tumble then the human one.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Mar 8, 2016 14:48:09 GMT
Robes give you more AC and open up the loot lich route (you are probaly going to need it for end game parties, "just" PMs are meh compared to other arcanes). Do you need to take a rogue level to go that route?
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Post by chainlink on Mar 8, 2016 14:52:14 GMT
Robes give you more AC and open up the loot lich route (you are probaly going to need it for end game parties, "just" PMs are meh compared to other arcanes). Do you need to take a rogue level to go that route? You do need to take a rogue level or you can't disable traps you'll have to recover them and this isn't possible with the highest DC ones.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 8, 2016 14:55:16 GMT
Robes give you more AC and open up the loot lich route (you are probaly going to need it for end game parties, "just" PMs are meh compared to other arcanes). Do you need to take a rogue level to go that route? No, you don't. But it costs quite a lot of feat to get armor proficiency and shield proficiency (randomization helps)
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Post by simpetar on Mar 8, 2016 15:01:42 GMT
Robes give you more AC and open up the loot lich route (you are probaly going to need it for end game parties, "just" PMs are meh compared to other arcanes). Do you need to take a rogue level to go that route? Yes, the usual loot lich is 9 wizard / 1 rogue / 30 PM. You take the rogue splash at lvl 20, pump all rogue skills there and then fill top them up in LLs, with the help of Able Learner. Before demi and access to +14 or +16 gear you will probably take SF: Open Lock, after that you can reinc and drop it (you need 38 dex to hit the cap). Search and Disarm Trap are not an issue, they are based on int. No need to worry about skill points, you will have more than you can even spend
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Post by chainlink on Mar 8, 2016 15:55:47 GMT
Of course unless you're extremely lucky with gear randomisation you'll have the perennial Wizard issue of gear changing to maximise relevant skills messing up your spell slots
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Post by simpetar on Mar 8, 2016 16:21:44 GMT
Of course unless you're extremely lucky with gear randomisation you'll have the perennial Wizard issue of gear changing to maximise relevant skills messing up your spell slots Nooo, stop trying to scare Cath off. PM book unlike wizard is not very complicated, so even if you have to refill it, you can do that blindfolded. Gear switching is generally required only for lockpicking; for regular searching on the run you will be fine with song and GR, thanks to huge int and both elf innate bonuses (Skill Affinity and Keen Senses). Locked chests rarely happen more than once a run, it is a small sacrifice for more loot.
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