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Post by desocupado on Mar 8, 2016 13:50:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 11:35:56 GMT
Seems very obviously overpowered to me.
Firstly, recall that The Serpent's Coil is an Artifact, and wearing it restricts you from using one of the other extremely powerful Artifacts. Secondly, 18 base Dexterity is not low at all, that is a Level 60 x2 Demi with 14 Dex at character creation, or a Level 80 with 12 Dex - quite typical amounts for most non-dexers.
Consider that with this item, a x2 toon created with 8 Dexterity (ie: the *lowest* amount possible, excluding subrace penalties) can take Paragon Balance and wear the belt to end with an Effective Dexterity in the low-mid 40s (fully maxes out at 46), which is plenty for the basic endgame checks at the moment. Clearly way over the top for a toon that literally only invested one feat and one item slot into Dexterity checks, without having to use an Artifact.
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Post by woqued on Mar 9, 2016 12:55:10 GMT
Well it is a paragon item - but yes. It is overly strong. As it is it covers too many relatively mandatory things (phys reduction) -on top of- many strong niche abilities such as EQ imm, levitation, dex checks (totally over the top numbers on dex check) as well as very high physical immunity. This is WAY too strong - but I like the idea.
Tone down physical immunities to 9 7 5 (bludgeoning piercing slashing), tone down dex checks to +6, and tone down the skills added to +20. Edit: to be honest you'd likely end up having to remove either the levitation or the phys imm as well from the item, and replace it with Chaos saving throws or something else that is closer to Paragon area material.
My biggest beef with this item would be its so strong you'd like to deliberately drop dex a bit to be able to wear it. That's saying something about it's power as it is in the current form.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 9, 2016 15:08:06 GMT
First Draft Paragon tier Belt - substitute for The Serpent's Coil for very low Dexterity builds You must have less than base 18 dexterity to wear this item This item grants +10 on Dexterity checks (maybe a bit less) AC bonus +18 Physical immunity +10% (x3) Physical resistances 30/- (x3) Haste Freedom Levitation Spell immunity Earthquake Spell immunity Reverse Gravity Tumble +30 CW +30 CA +30 The base 18 choice was due factoring Double demi and paragon stat boost (base +6) - maybe reducing the Maximum dexterity to 16 would make it low dexterity build only. Based on woqued feedback I'll nerf it. Let me play with numbers: Current Str Tank base dex 14/base +4/demi +2/paragon +16/item = 36 + 4/asmo belt = 40 +4/paragon feat Low Dex tank = 10/base dex +4/demi +2/paragon +16/item = 32 +8/gyro belt = 40 +4/paragon feat Now it's the same value but it costs some reflex saves. I was aiming for a boost low dexterity builds - maybe further lowering the dex to less than 15 might be in order.
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Post by woqued on Mar 9, 2016 16:11:03 GMT
Ah. I didn't mean I like the idea of limiting it only for a dumb build with a silly amount of dex - I just liked the base item idea. Why would you ever want to start with less than 12 base dexterity on a tank toon? What do you get in return besides too low reflex saves? Raising str / cha on divine tanks higher is also not a good idea to start with lower dex, as you'll start paying with AC for it assuming you wear medium armor.. Now you'll start less and you'll start paying to wear this item with having a less than ideal stat setup for your build, just to wear this.
My point: there is no point to start with lower than 12-14 dexterity on any given build, unless you are 1. pariah 2. some turner that is SUPER hard put with skill points for cha, but again both casters and not wielders of this belt.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 9, 2016 16:57:19 GMT
Possible low dexterity builds I could point: Str assassin with rogue splash Non-demi non-pharlan BK Chanter Smiters (Bg/Pal) without demi x2 Smiter-turner Risen Lord shifter-like tank Dwarf Defender with Legendary battle hardned Maximun AB Str Lash (For kd/dis) Open Race staff master
On the other hand - if it's +6 then not dexterity limitation might be needed.
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Post by woqued on Mar 9, 2016 17:07:01 GMT
Possible low dexterity builds I could point: Str assassin with rogue splash Non-demi non-pharlan BK Chanter Smiters (Bg/Pal) without demi x2 Smiter-turner Risen Lord shifter-like Dwarf Defender with LEgendary battle hardned Maximun AB Str Lash (For kd/dis) Open Race staff master On the other hand - if it's +6 then not dexterity limitation might be needed. You are talking about non-demi, lowbie builds when discussing a paragon tier belt. On that note, I like the new version a lot more. Now that you nerfed it a lot (rightfully) to a less everything-covering item - the new looks a little pale, and with belt covering 0 misc immunities or stats, might be hard to work with. Thus suggesting an addition: Misc immunity to Knockdown (if you're immune to ground-style spells, why not regular KD?) as well as to go with your new-found nimbleness, +14 dexterity scaling to infinity? Edit: this will be less physical immunity than the XR physical immunity belt variant as well as not having soak, but has phys dr. The XR Phys reduction belt has a LOT more physical reductions, but no immunity. These being augmentable and randomizable will make them better than this set belt in the end - even for low-dex builds, but as it is it seems like a paragon power alternative to wear. Edit edit: you are right, there indeed are some very niche ones like the Smiturner i forgot ! Perhaps the belt would've had a niche for those, and the shifters indeed.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 9, 2016 17:22:15 GMT
Added +16 dexterity Increased resitances back to 30/- Added immunity to knockdown and slow
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Post by Raj on Mar 9, 2016 17:44:59 GMT
Now its power is more in check but looks very similar to Perfect Emptiness and a very powerful dex version of Graz'zt's Demonic Codpiece; and then for some physical %immunity we have They Enslaved Others. Your item is trying to do a bit of everything and adding a quite powerful (albeit situational, but when you need it you love it) EQ immunity that is artifact-tier. There're already many end game resistance belts (and Azz3 one is VERY similar to your concept), what about removing the 30/ x3 and adding a unique like Chain of Solidarity one? --- This item grants +6 on all Dexterity checks This item will root you to the ground when worn, preventing you from being thrown //NEW! AC bonus +18 Dexterity +16 Physical immunity +5% (x3) Physical resistances 30/- (x3) Haste Freedom Immunity: Knockdown Immunity: Slow Spell immunity Earthquake Spell immunity Reverse Gravity Tumble +20 CW +20 //this is not a martial belt, this is a ''hold your ground'' sort of one CA +20
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Post by desocupado on Mar 9, 2016 17:59:21 GMT
Sounds good Raj. Tough I'm also inclined to add immunity: Movement speed decrease to increase it's niche use (while it lost some generalist use)
Now a question: Which is stronger between 1 - This item will root you to the ground when worn, preventing you from being thrown 2 - Levitation (If it has levitation it also becomes a gravity slain upgrade)
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Post by Raj on Mar 9, 2016 18:01:26 GMT
Yes I thought about levitation but it would have made gravity slain super outdated, the other property at least is on a different slot as it is now.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 9, 2016 18:04:03 GMT
Gravity slain can still roll Added property: Immunity Stun and stuff. But I thought it was meant to be an outright upgrade from BUR tier.
Levitation on the other hand is a lesser "upgrade" if you factor the possible PW abundance in XR areas.
-------- Edit:
Would movement speed decrease immunity prevent a DwD slowness? Would speed artifact have that effect as well?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 13, 2016 16:19:58 GMT
Thoughts on this version?:
----- This item grants +4 on all Dexterity checks ----- This item will root you to the ground when worn, protecting from some attacks.
AC bonus +18
Dexterity +14
Physical immunity +5% (x3) Haste Freedom Immunity: Knockdown Immunity: Slow Immunity: Movement speed Decrease
Spell immunity Earthquake Spell immunity Reverse Gravity
Tumble +20
Thanks, Funky
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Post by Raj on Mar 13, 2016 16:27:04 GMT
Cool enough, imo, as long as +14 upgrades to +16; I took it for granted for all set loot but better be sure, all this set loot gets a stats upgrade at ... 75/80? up to +16? more?
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