//EDIT harbinger-war-ftr-bg-25 It's AC is just passable but it's a good party member if someone spam target for mass haste and is uni. requires double demigodhood tough It starts at 122 ac (level 60 gear+12 in expertise mode without guird -> 93 effective ab) benefits a lot from double demigod, paragon level, SH, and so on.
Most WM can pull it off with improved expertise. Other class can add expertise. Paladins and bg pull it of with divine shield. Paladins pack way better defenses. Monk can wield one martial weapon easily - monk-build-ideas
Ideally you want to have harper scout splash for 40% more damage (from 5 to 7 attacks)
CoT is bad compared to either cleric (greater restoration, divine power, battletide, gate and epics/paragons) or paladin (divine shield ac, significant phy/pos immunity bonuses). While their features are sort of appealing (several immunities, 1 extra attack, undispelled soak and automatic restoration) they don't help surviving in a realistic condition as a 2 hander in a regular hell+ run.
Even the mentioned BG with the divine shield AC (cha mod/2 shield ac) tend to employ the 2handed gimmick better due managing to get divine shield ac to a passable number. (and work on rona and elysium)
Given the options the best rated (due features) are: Soak route -> cleric (can keep himself into gr and gate) Cha-rapier wit (Smiter = Pal 35/ Hs5 or non smiter Pal 31/Fighter 4/Hs 5)-> Paladin (gets most mileage out of Charisma by far - ideally uses oc/dc rapier gear)
Since the uni build wasn't optimizing Charisma, I felt it was reasonable to use as BG (less buffs to care about) even tough Paladin spellbook is way better.
Last Edit: Oct 14, 2016 18:53:18 GMT by desocupado
Post by ssj2poliwhirl on Oct 14, 2016 19:14:51 GMT
It is indeed 40% (20% for Shapestrong Barbarians, 0% for Quarterstaff) as Deso said. Generally speaking, it's very hard to make an effective 2H that is also a 'true uni-tank'... leave bullet-proof tanking for the 1Hers, 2Hers are all about the damage!
2Hers are a bit of a complicated topic which most players are quite clueless about. The idea at its most basic level is that certain classes (most melees, in fact) can survive with lower levels of AC as long as they have various other forms of defence - often some class/build feature combined with good gear and intelligent play. They usually only come into maturity after a handful of Paragon levels and demi-iterations. Here's a relevant snippet from my 2H Paladin thread:
The first obvious hurdle is that there are relatively hefty minimum requirements. Like most 2Hers, this build NEEDS Paragon levels and a couple of demi-iterations to work. There are a fair few Paragon builds on the forums that attempt to tweak their stats to 'work' as a Level 60 x0, but that is simply a terrible idea and only adds fuel to the 'tanks suck' argument.
In short, Fallen is 100% correct in calling them "endgame builds for richboys". My general advice would be to focus on a 1H toon that is useful in runs before reincarnating into a 2Her once the toon is ready (~Level 72, ~x5 Demi) AND you've already got the required gear; for example, my 2H Paladin thread has a specific list of required gear.
KEEPING THE ABOVE IN MIND, here's a quick list of viable 2Her archetypes + the notable class features which let them survive without a shield: (note that some are even more gear-dependent than normal, due to less attractive class features)
Barbarian - Shapestrong (kind of a gimmick - essentially you AREN'T a 2Her at all, in exchange for a reduced 20% 2H bonus), bonus % Immunity (STR), Crit Immunity [Greater Rage] (Battle) Cleric - Gate-Soak + Greater Restoration, Epic Dodge option (Epic Mage Armor), Crit Immunity [Aura vs Alignment] (doesn't work in Limbo!) Blackguard - Divine Shield (moderate levels of AC), Crit Immunity [Death Ward] Champion of Torm - Divine Wrath Soak, Auto-Restoration, Free Immunities, Crit Immunity [Divine Wrath] Fighter - Bonus Conceal from Parry (can combine with LSA Hide/Mass Camouflage for effective ~80% Conceal), Epic Dodge, Self-Immute, Expertise/Disarm options Monk - Bonus Monk AC (even just for splash-builds), bonus % Immunity (STR), good Conceal from Empty Body, Crit Immunity option [Wholeness of Body] Paladin - Divine Shield (moderate levels of AC), Crit Immunity [Death Ward], bonus % Immunity from Aura of Glory Ranger - Can claim Ranger Wisdom AC bonus when wielding certain weapons, Crit Immunity option [Polymorph Self] Rogue - Epic Dodge, easily capped Hide due to Skill Mastery (good Conceal from Mass Camouflage) Warchanter - huge Conceal, Crit Immunity [War Cry] Weapon Master - Superior Disarm, Improved Expertise option, Crit Immunity [Ki Reflection]
[One positive/negative thing to note is that the above list contains every single T1-LBAB class *except* Dwarven Defender]
Last Edit: Oct 14, 2016 23:19:33 GMT by ssj2poliwhirl
I mean, just for LL/hells CoT is still totaly viable, it used to be (way way before paragon lvls or even abyss) dualwep like diremace. +16 soak with autorestore is very nice in that enviroment as long as you study which enemies inflict and how much. By this i mean running 70ac in hells. Stacking everything in immunities in gear. I did a limbo run with such build, it was kinda meh, if it had been less experienced party I wouldn't have contributed much, but with skilled party I was able to dish out dmg, but not much of a tanking done by me. So definitely not something I'd recommend for all-around endgame.
I guess it comes down to what do you expect to do with said char, what kind of party and which runs are you aiming for.
Pallys scale a lot slower than cots, and battlecleric in limbo might end permadispelled even with augury on so I woudn't recommend those two at level ~65 either. Generally speaking you play 2hander only if richboy or in big party where you can flank.