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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 4, 2017 19:39:26 GMT
Having returned to the server after a long absence, I realise that I have forgotten a lot of how to play! I am going to build up a few new toons to remind me of what is going on. I will be soloing quite a bit, to begin with, and joining up later for tougher runs. What builds would people recommend? I'd like something relatively simple to play, maybe increasing complexity as i learn/remember things. Something that will be useful in the later game, that people will be happy to have in a party rather than drag me along. Builds I have enjoyed in the past: Arcane Archer (Flurry of Arrows) Assassin Rogue (Halfling Death) - Not so much solo, hard to get sneak attacks! Wizard - A lot to remember: What spells? What to hit with them ... I'm sure it will all come back to me ... with a little help Dwarven Defender I might have another look at STRanger. I don't have many decent STR subRaces though. All advice welcomed!
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Post by somes on Jan 4, 2017 20:20:37 GMT
From your list, there's a quasiclass called Dwarven Warchanters, which is the character I try to push melee players to at least make one to have a core fill in while being able to have fun with a melee (80% of the classes you listed were melees). They don't bring possums but a good party shouldn't be relying on them too much, and they bring a lot of the utilities bard do, and they also bring death of magic which is situationally strong, and even necessary for runs like Abolteths.
Rogue is good as well, and a lock picker is necessary for Abyss. I would suggest going dexterity until getting good gear.
Bards also fit your criteria, but they are not able to solo as much until they get their army in paragon levels. You can solo Oinos with little to no difficulty if you are into that kind of thing.
Clerics fit into your criteria, and theoretically a rich one could solo some high end runs with Eternal Return as a fail safe without any help of bots. You don't need deep knowledge to do well like an Arcane, or mechanics like a Druid does, and with the Gate spell you can basically run around naked and be hard to kill. Ask for a displacement and you are golden. Most of the time you're only casting 3-4 spells, you can get #1 in kills even with an open subrace build, and let me commit sacrilege: they are easier than bards. You get the bonus of me kissing your feet for not logging the 8th tank on a run.
Ultimately, 1-55, play whats fun, do whatever. After that, think of the end game runs like a competitive sport or the final levels of any video game. Basically you play at your best, and if you have a goofy build, you'll bring it because you can actually make it work.
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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 4, 2017 20:59:43 GMT
Thanks for the advice. I'm not tied to the listed Classes, just saying I have found them fun. Maybe it is time to diversify (Don't think I ever built a Cleric!) I'll check what subRaces I have (I know I have PlaneWalker, and Erinyes. Not sure what else!), and peruse the Builds wiki. I see Clerics come in 3 flavours - Caster, Battle and Turner. I had Turner recommended previously. Is that the way to go? Warchanter could be feasible. I'll probably be back, asking how to tweak things for the subRaces I have, or my inferior equipment selection, or such
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Post by somes on Jan 4, 2017 21:06:05 GMT
Thanks for the advice. I'm not tied to the listed Classes, just saying I have found them fun. Maybe it is time to diversify (Don't think I ever built a Cleric!) I'll check what subRaces I have (I know I have PlaneWalker, and Erinyes. Not sure what else!), and peruse the Builds wiki. I see Clerics come in 3 flavours - Caster, Battle and Turner. I had Turner recommended previously. Is that the way to go? Warchanter could be feasible. I'll probably be back, asking how to tweak things for the subRaces I have, or my inferior equipment selection, or such Subraces don't matter much by the way, I seem to find new players overrate them way too much. Playing bard properly and gearing properly did a lot more for me as my first serious run toon than any subrace did. I would say Battle Clerics are not newbie friendly at all. Turners and caster clerics are both good, but caster clerics have more options. Turners are nice to have after you've made your first few cores.
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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 5, 2017 0:01:57 GMT
It's not so much having The Uber SubRace, as making the build work, when it's designed for a different race. I'm not the best builder, and might need some advice on how to adjust things.
So, I'm going to try a Caster Cleric! Lets see if I can mangle a published build to fit Erinyes ...
All other advice welcome!
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Post by somes on Jan 5, 2017 2:29:43 GMT
It's not so much having The Uber SubRace, as making the build work, when it's designed for a different race. I'm not the best builder, and might need some advice on how to adjust things. So, I'm going to try a Caster Cleric! Lets see if I can mangle a published build to fit Erinyes ... All other advice welcome! Yes that's fine, you'll be able to change it once you have Drow Noble or Half-Celestial. I highly suggest this build here, as it will do a better job than I ever can: highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/24849/newbie-cleric-september-2016?page=1&scrollTo=228797It seems Poli is gone for the holidays (he made the thread), but feel free to PM me. I'll also be online a lot less due to school though.
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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 5, 2017 20:26:46 GMT
Thanks for linking to that build! It is very useful to have the "How to play" guide for it! I have started a version, so will have to see how it goes. Slowly, so far ...
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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 6, 2017 20:26:54 GMT
OK, from a quick look, rebuilding ssj2poliwhirl's Newbie Cleric with Gnome-Erinyes instead of Gnome-Svirfnibble will alter stats: STR: No Change DEX: +2 -> +6 = +4, to 18 CON: -2 -> +2 = +4, to 16 WIS: +2 -> +4 = +2, to 22 INT: No Change CHA: No Change
I could shift some of these points into STR (a couple from CON, maybe?) to avoid being ultra-feeble. Or could keep the HP. Is the DEX helping? I presume AC will be capped by armour (Once I have the STR to wear it!) Or would more INT be useful? Max another skill?
I can't see that svirflenubble gets any useful Feats (and nor does Erinyes - all Archery!)
I still get the Gnome bonus Skill Points.
What use is Ranger splash at Lvl 10 doing? Is it purely for Animal Empathy to make levelling easier? Any harm in skipping Ranger? There is a "Ranger Bonus Feat" noted. Will I lose this?
Thanks for putting up with my poor build-fu ...
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Post by Raj on Jan 6, 2017 20:41:10 GMT
Don't make a gnome erinnie ever, use human for better gear options.
Ranger any time after 3 is ok, just to get a GSF feat and dump some AE for otlum stuff. It's 100% useless if you know what you do or aim at higher level playing anyway.
That being said, don't use the ranger/open race variant but adapt the fallen angel one instead, since your subrace allows for better stats.
Dex 14 (before subrace changes) is the standard and suggested option for any caster player interested in level 60s and hells and beyond, while buffing strength is pointless because it's not going to be high enough to matter on the same caster builds; check the wiki (hells bestiary) and look for DEX checks.
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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 8, 2017 21:05:35 GMT
Having had a quick look at Builds, I can do the following with Human Ernie:
STR: 8 -> 8 DEX: 12 -> 18 CON: 12 -> 14 WIS: 18 -> 22 (-> 40 @ 40) INT: 14 -> 14 CHA: 8 -> 6
Lawful Evil, for Monk and Heartbane?
Cleric 39. Monk 1 @ 40. Lvl 1: SF Evo. GSF Evo, Lvl 2-20: MM Extend. SF/GSF Necro. Spell Pen. SF/GSF Div. Lvl 21-39: ESF Evo, Div, Necro. Grt/Epic Spell Pen. Grt Wis 1-8. Lvl 40: Max Skills (43): Conc, Disc, Tumble, Parry, Craft Armour. 2 Skill Points left.
Read ESF Enchant Book?
This puts my feats/skills in the same place as Newbie Gnome-Sferblmuffin or Fallen Angel. Same Int as FA, so same skill progression after 40 (Conc, Craft Armour, Parry)?
LegLevels (untested - but same as Gnome/FA): Leg Spell Pen LSF Evo, Div, Necro Grt Wis 9, 10 Epic reflex.
No Ranger splash. Stats slightly better than FA, apart from WIS (and CHA). When I get 2 Half-celestial books (Or 1 and a bunch of time!) I can rebuild.
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Post by Raj on Jan 8, 2017 21:46:53 GMT
Start with 14 dex, 10 con. Spare points into heal. After level 60 you only get 3 points/lvl no matter what, put those points into hard to max skills with gear like parry and craft armors. Yes @ evil and enchant.
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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 8, 2017 21:57:31 GMT
Thanks for the reply. I shall see how far I get
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Post by chainlink on Jan 10, 2017 7:44:26 GMT
Your character is already a BUR race so you'll just need to use a HC book on the same account then reincarnate it, no need for a second book.
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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 19, 2017 11:19:47 GMT
From your list, there's a quasiclass called Dwarven Warchanters, which is the character I try to push melee players to at least make one to have a core fill in while being able to have fun with a melee (80% of the classes you listed were melees). They don't bring possums but a good party shouldn't be relying on them too much, and they bring a lot of the utilities bard do, and they also bring death of magic which is situationally strong, and even necessary for runs like Abolteths. On Warchanters ... Which build to go for? There are 2 Open builds on the forum, one of which is DEX-based - rather not use this one. The other (Azer Chieftain) is a non-singing Tank. For Secret races, I don't have the BURs. I do have battlerager, lycan and planewalker. Are any of those worth using?
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Post by chainlink on Jan 19, 2017 12:07:16 GMT
Planewalker makes an acceptable Wizard (+2 Int) and the fact you don't need any survival rings makes it easier to wear breach and/or mord protection.
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