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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 18, 2017 19:15:54 GMT
I've started building an Assassin (based on this: highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/24264 ). It gets no Weapon Feats until level 15, so I haven't decided what to go with yet. What weapons are considered "best" for assassins? Obviously I'd like to max out Critical range, but maybe have some damage potential for Crit Immunes. I've not seen many "Assassin Dagger" available, maybe I've missed them. Rapiers were always a solid choice, and I have several in my Bank. (UR's, lvl 35, Sithrak, I think) If I go for 'popular' weapons, am I going to struggle to find them/win loot-splits? What would people recommend? And why? |
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Post by desocupado on Jan 18, 2017 19:32:31 GMT
There's only one option - assassin dagger.
The threat range ensures two ms attempts per round.
Also consider that having more threat increase penetrating strike frequency I.e. damage against critical immune foes. Which is far more relevant than damage against critical vulnerable foes.
The extra damage isn't extraordinary it then it's what's built-in the class.
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Post by somes on Jan 18, 2017 20:34:20 GMT
I disagree with Deso. Unfortunately assassins are underplayed in high end runs because most of the stuff you can MS are trash mobs the cleric in the party will do a better job of insta killing, and ideally for a fast run all the melees should be beating down stuff that can't be easily killed by spells, which all are basically crit and death magic immune. The only exception I can possibly see is the monastery map in limbo and POSSIBLY some slaad spawns, but that's only one map out of the many on that run and one monster type, and the cookie cutter 2handers will kill what you want to MS in two crits anyway. There's always zio, but congratulations, you outshine a core in only one run. The 2hander COT will also kill your MS targets faster than you can in that zio run too, so you're gonna be outshined either way. It really depends on what you want, if you want an assassin for the sake of playing an assassin you can basically ignore this post, but based on your post it seems you want it to be useful on most runs (you want to damage crit immune monsters), so the answer will be the same for every melee you make - the best weapon is whatever you have the most DB copies of. You can follow Rajah's guide on how to craft them, and you'll basically see in that guide why it's always the answer: highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/23428/guide-crafting-weapons?page=1If I were to make a new assassin or reincarnate an old one, I would make it strength (make it dex if you don't have good gear yet), choose whatever I had the most DB copies of a blunt weapon as it is the best damage for hells and abyss, switch to a slashing weapon once its ready for limbo, get the highest MS DC possible, get search/open lock/disable trap to be able to have another character fill that role. I would play the assassin as last resort if my party needed a searcher or something to open locks and there are already too many casters (my loot mage would offer more than my sin), but I would choose my 2hander as a main tank always, especially if I need to play well for my party to be successful. Again, if your assassin is just for the sake of playing one and wanting to MS stuff, ignore this post. |
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Post by tomaan on Jan 18, 2017 20:56:46 GMT
Not a big fan of the asn dagger either -- too limited for my tastes.
I've always used scimitar (slash = easier to keen) or rapier for my assassins.
Still, you're probably going to at the lower end of damage for melee regardless of what weapon you go with. You can be effective, but will probably be looking up at the others in that regard.
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Post by manuka on Jan 18, 2017 21:31:22 GMT
If ya making a assasin for pre hell runs that builds is fine. If you wana go to hells that build will be lying dead on its back. Allmost any tank needs to be uni. Best option in my opinion would be to go assassin blackguard monk and use a flachion and get divine might, this would give you good dmg vs pit piends and males in the hells which are tanks main target. Once lvl 60 + take paragon weapon alternative in a 2handed bludg weapon to up your damage vs pit fiends.ac will suffer untill double demi where you can easily get 135-140+ depening on build and gear. Most points into str and get dex to atleast 30 base, ms dc would suffer a bit.
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Post by desocupado on Jan 18, 2017 21:44:53 GMT
Assassin daggerGuys you are ignoring the update - 2 ms attempts per round almost requires the dagger - You should aim for a consistent MS attempt on each flurry. It also helps if it occurs in first and second flurry. Dagger = 60/65% crit chance per attack ---> 16%/12,5% chance of not doing a crit/ms per flurry with 2 attacks Rapier-scimitar-light flail family = 45/50% crit chance per attack -> 30%/25% chance of not doing a crit/ms per flurry with 2 attacks //i.e. this is the best scenario - Extreme AB x low AC and no concealment (concealment exists folks - go get higher threat because you'll lose attacks and you may lose attempts as well) Assassin gameplayPlaystyleTry to get spellslot gear since foebane for assns allows you to switch from monsters that are critical hit vulnerable to those that are death vulnerable. This means you can kill the annoying advespas, osyluths and narzugons, and brood swarms in the abyss. Also important is getting weapons with keen as an added property, since damage won't be a huge priority, it can be better to use set weapons such as the one from Min or Dulvuroth. i.e. kill things with high SR unlike the "puny" clerics - if you can't do this you might as well play a cleric then. (A cleric is a better character than an assassin - the most positive side to assassin is being able to do rogue duties without reducing a wizard/bard CL) Nowadays you can pick extra weapons with paragon Weapon Affinity. Nothing stops you from getting the slashing/blungeoning weapon if you are a dexter/str tank afterwards. Still this might be too troublesome for one reason - assassin don't really have good physical damage (worse than a DwD) - i.e. they can't pick weapon specialization, lack divine might/wrath. If you want to ignore class features just delete the assassin and make an evil necromancer cleric.
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Post by Raj on Jan 18, 2017 21:55:53 GMT
If I had to start an assassin from scratch I'd go str based with still at least 14 dex pre-subrace for hell checks, use the Uxan plate in order to get more attacks/round (alternative would be super pricy azz3 cloak... not an option until you're quite rich), using a light flail/shield combo. Newbie dex-based dualwielding asn daggers simply lack survivability/damage, and dex-based 1h/shield lacks everything in order to get some overkill ac, that won't help much against all the kd checks that will annihilate a build like the posted one at 0x. Avoid splashing rogue because it really cripples your offense, and I'd go as far as suggesting to stop at 29 asn levels in order to splash fighter for solid damage against the no-crittable ones. Basically, don't be a one-trick pony because, as earlier replies told ya, that'd be quite a poor toon, enjoyable during the first 2 rounds of every fight and useless after. 3 bg / 8 ftr / 29 asn build, doing very solid dmg with divine might/paragon specialization, with a 18-20/x2 weapon (flail is the best choice for your first hell adventures) and oc/dc as well. Once rich, you can go monk/ftr using a different divine power source and 2handed for ok ac and better dmg, but you require demigod stats to pull good numbers on monk splashes, and invest in save feats for what comes after hells. tl;dr assassins are a noob trap, at least do some dmg vs stuff you can't crit. |
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Post by desocupado on Jan 18, 2017 22:10:18 GMT
I tried the str with assassin 29 - losing DC doesn't really payoff - i.e. since you should be relevant against stuff with high SR - the things that don't take BT or Prayer easily, you must have enough DC to finish them off.
Divine might is too short lived with a BG splash and low CHA. Also those offensive feats take some toll on defenses.
Divine power from the plate is solid - it even takes your ab to Disarm/KD levels.
The problem with assassins is that they are way worse tanks than a DwD with lower damage potential.
For me their saving grace is the added rogue splash possibility (i.e. they are more fun to play than rogues).
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Post by somes on Jan 18, 2017 22:11:40 GMT
Assassin daggerGuys you are ignoring the update - 2 ms attempts per round almost requires the dagger - You should aim for a consistent MS attempt on each flurry. It also helps if it occurs in first and second flurry. Doesn't really matter either way, the MS criticisms still stand. Could be 5 ms attempts and it still isn't good enough, the amnizus were heartbaned by the cleric and the pit fiend isn't going to die to mortal strike. I do still enjoy assassin though, especially if I want to help out on an Ely/Drow/Shallow Hells/Zio run and feel like playing a melee, and the party doesn't need any other essentials. SR isn't an issue in Hells and Abyss really, especially in Abyss runs as they only start with organized parties, and a Druid will almost always be there. It also doesn't help that paragon levels were added, which gave an extra two spell penetration to all casters, but assassins are worth playing for the fun factor and not much else really. |
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Post by desocupado on Jan 18, 2017 22:51:12 GMT
Most fun I have with them is casting GV then rushing a group of casters while the rest of the party is busy with the melee mobs.
Or casting Foebane and getting those Elite Narzugon.
In hells I try to put my weight on those heavy guys by stacking Divine Power and True Strike then disarming that PF.
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Post by sabregirl on Jan 18, 2017 23:57:59 GMT
If ya making a assasin for pre hell runs that builds is fine. If you wana go to hells that build will be lying dead on its back. It's fine in hells if you play smart, but yes probably not a good idea for a newer player as you won't know which targets to go for and which to avoid. The point of the build is to have rogue skills and max mortal strike DC which two attempts a round is pretty decent. I have to disagree with this. Not everything needs to be uni, but easiest for hells is Str with a decent amount of dex. Unless it's a large subrace, that will be flat on its back for a new player. I wouldn't recommend a new person to go two handed into hells, especially as a first go through even with assn conceal. I've started building an Assassin (based on this: highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/24264 ). It gets no Weapon Feats until level 15, so I haven't decided what to go with yet. What weapons are considered "best" for assassins? Obviously I'd like to max out Critical range, but maybe have some damage potential for Crit Immunes. I've not seen many "Assassin Dagger" available, maybe I've missed them. Rapiers were always a solid choice, and I have several in my Bank. (UR's, lvl 35, Sithrak, I think) If I go for 'popular' weapons, am I going to struggle to find them/win loot-splits? What would people recommend? And why? It's best to use what you have that has the best crit range, assuming you're after the best attempts for mortal strike. Assn daggers aren't too common as far as storebought, but they do give you the best odds of killing a monster. -S |
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Post by technoprisoner on Jan 19, 2017 0:34:45 GMT
OK, I see I've opened a can of worms here! I'll probably not be running Hell any time soon, so will have fun getting to 40, and see what spare time my g/f allows me ;P I've always preferred DEX based characters (Archer, Dex-Ranger, Dex-Assassin, rogue), but it doesn't look like many make it to top-end. I'm not a complete n00b, but after ~10 years away, I have forgotten a lot, and a lot has changed ... I don't have many Daggers, but do have a fair array of rapiers from way-back, so I think I'll stick with them. (Definitely got Sithrak, lvl35, not sure about Dustbone.) I don't know the Craft/Randomise system - will look at Crafting article. If I end up reincarnating, I may go STR. I only have One-Eyed (UR?) STR subRace (Or Stinger? Can't remember what they are good at). Thanks for the input. Feel free to continue  |
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Post by Raj on Jan 19, 2017 0:41:13 GMT
I'll probably not be running Hell any time soon, so will have fun getting to 40, and see what spare time my g/f allows me ;P Then it doesn't really matter, 1-40 you play whatever you like, can even clic recommended (but is not recommended  ) Most of newbie advices are aimed at people casually getting past Immo, then farming enough xp to reach 55-60 to try Hells but not really having good subraces or gear, so builds gotta be quite sturdy and noob proof, at least contributing by not requiring too many resurrections, bonus points if dishing some damage. Dex assassins are neither, and are quite gear reliant. |
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Post by drunkenboastor on Jan 19, 2017 2:20:11 GMT
If you can get devastating critical assassin dagger, then it is absolutely the best weapon for an assassin. There are a number of situations where critical hit multiplier is needed to do damage, so it may be better to use a 18-20 x2 weapon on a dex assassin.
If you do not have a disarm pandact, it is very worthwhile to still eventually get Paragon disarm. Extended true strikes help a lot with this.
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Post by chainlink on Jan 19, 2017 8:27:02 GMT
My One-Eyed sin was my first 5x Demi character, its definitely worth getting disarm to paragon level if you can fit it in as this is extremly useful against the big boys from Hell (who are immune to critical hits) as they are way less dangerous with no weapons in their claws, whilst you won't be as good at this a WM (you can match a Tier 1 character when you have divine power up) with a curse song you should be able to disarm most of the stuff you come up against.
Unfortunately any build based on Half-Orc suffers due to the innate -2 Int penalty which affects both skills and the ability to cast sin spells (you'll need base 14 to get level 4s) which means you have to divert 4 more than non-Half-Orc at creation to reach this point, when I built my original character Int was not used to get spells (yes it was that long ago!) so you could afford to take significantly less points unless you were making an rogue splash to open stuff as well.
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