Ok so I've made and AP and I have a few questions because the build I'm using doesn't make much sense to me. There are no feats for weapons, and only feats for two spell schools (Trans & Necro). How can I hit anything if I have no chosen weapon? How does my AB go up? Is it Constitution based? That's where all the feats and points seem to be going. I decided to see if there was an newer version and I'm reading about builds for sorc CC 32/8 or 34/6, and then someone argues that the OG 20/20 Barb cc is the way to go. So I'm confused and would like some help. You don't need to post a build to help. I was under the impression this was a buffed high dps tank. Maybe I'm wrong, so any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm gonna reinc when I get to 41 either way because I made mistakes lvling I just want to know what works for 2017 and not 2012 when this build was posted.
20/20 has higher con, better hp/skills, more rages. 32/8-34/6 gets epic spells; the former is stronger and easier to mantain until it comes down to some boss fights and runs where the arcane caster is supposed to have such epics.
A melee variant doesn't work, when you compare ab/ac/dmg output/survivability it is simply weaker than other tank alternatives, standard barb among them. You can see a couple of those melee pariah running around atm but they're some funny experiment made by some people who never had a proper tank in the endgame so can't make a fair comparison.
It doesn't work very well, but you'd better understand the gap in effectiveness if you played something of proven viability first: usually focusing on quasiclasses or weird builds (and melee pariah applies as both) gives some weird feedback, especially in big party where people might get carried withouth knowing and assume the build is viable.
Anyway, by the time you meet some huge inflictor (enemies lowering your immunities on hit/just standing around) the inability to heal is going to prove to be the build killer, and abysmal dexterity/saves are not something you want on a frontliner; fixing both issues is going to require so many feats and stat points, on a build w/o bonus feats, that the offensive ability of such build would be questioned even more.
DC/SP you simply want to max for level appropriate content, your offensive spells are not going to work reliably.
I'd like to also point out that huge weapons, beside the cool factor, are simply inferior choices. Being big and bulky gives illusory feedback.
For all pratical purposes, let compare the exotic mercurial greatsword (1d12 base slashing damage, 20/x4 critical) to its martial counterpart greataxe (1d10 base slashing damage, 20/x4 criticals). 1 (one!) average point of damage difference in exchange for a feat, and requires you to be a large size toon (so -1ab/-1ac compared to a medium sized humanoid). There's a reason you don't see ogres and giants running around, they are weaker than they look.
I'm in favor of huge weapons getting double damage type (like the old ms/halb/scythe) to at least give them a niche/edge fwiw.
Well I'm completely discouraged with my mele AP at the moment. He is lvl 29 and only has a 37ab the small elemental I summon has a an ab almost two times better at ab 69. I'm barely hitting anything, and from what I have read so far a caster AP is a more viable build. I already have a sorc, so I don't know if I want to build another caster if there are no real advantages over the sorc I already have. I'll keep leveling this toon and reading this thread for information but only until I get it to level 41. At that point I'll decide whether or not I should reincarnate or just delete. Thanks for the info so far it has me thinking.
Pariahs are ok with normal rage, without taking any feat. They don't get real crit immunity of their own, but Stone Bones do that job just fine, as long as they don't try to tank. Rage's duration is based on constitution, so it lasts long - pariahs usually run out of spells before all their rage expires. Not to mention that 20/20 don't get ANY bonus epic feats and having Great Constitution 10 is more or less mandatory just as any other caster needs to max their caster stat. That doesn't leave much room for extra feats like Mighty Rage.
Using damage shields is ok in 1-40 range. In LLs damage shields drop drastically in usefulness and in Hell and beyond, they are big no-no. The only tolerable one is Elemental Shield (free 50% to cold and fire, yum) and even then you need to avoid being hit too much.
Pariah has always had issues when coming to balance. Raj could tell you stories of damage shields (their special physical kb shield specifically) soloing hells before it (and shifter manticore) was nerfed by adding soak to nearly all hell critters.
Then for 3 years my "Damage PM" was dominating caster untill paragon lvls were released and Pariah SP getting nerfed in the process. They still had good spot in abusing the broken Reverse Gravity -spell, which has then also been nerfed.
Now a pariah is more of a niche tanky arcane caster. With greater restoration they are immune to dmg and only ever die to instakills, but their offencive options have been severly limited. Lvl 80 pariah gets 3 spell focuses. Most common I believe is trans/necro/illu with items to rely on evoc/div/conju/abju (evoc gust/dmg, div pwk, conju evards, abju banish). Mine has dropped necro spells and use evoc from feats. It is really strong caster that can solo drag bot through dis-cania with ease, but a proper sorc dualboxed could do the same. Sorc needs to cheese more as it cant facetank it all. Hard to make a case for pariah in comparison to sorc - sorc will come out ahead almost every time in strength when fully utilized. Pariah is the easy one to play.
Damage shields allows pariah to kill stuff like malebranch, amnizu, cornugon, gelugon etc without casting multiple spells on them. Pariah packs good dc (+3 vs sorc) to instakill machines with disint and gust the fume likes. The bash on dmg shields is nubtalk from ppl who lack the skill to use them. Or watching ppl who dont know how to use. Ele shield + mestils can deal several thousand dmg a cast. Only aoe spells like evards can compete with them, those suffer the exact same downside, have to cancel if no hit mob is there that doesnt get instakilled. Well guess what, you can cancel your shields just as easily as you can cancel aoe spells. You can quickslot a tell to your self to cancel shields and it should be right next to your !cancel aoe in the quickbar.
Talking about some numbers here. 30% Stone bones + 40% phys on armor + 5% boots (abyss boots/breach boots untill asmo ring) + 5% ammy + 10% gloves + 10% cloak + 5% shield + prell tags = 108% give or take on rand. That means you can maintain over 100% even with some pens. 15/- resist is alrdy enough to negate all phys dmg in nessus at high demi. This is my setup, Raj prefers going ac with med armor, asmo shield and ammy with AC. It is viable option, personally I prefer being immune to dmg rather than try to avoid being hit. Now to concider dangerous enemies in hells, having a cleric that is willing to GR you, the list goes down to 0. Anyways. Abishais (Tia-dis), Hamatula (dis, min, phleg, malb, malad?), Baatorian green steel golem (Dis, Min, Styg, Malad), Cinderscale (phleg), Hell Leech (Min), Infernal Machine (Dis, Phleg, Malad, Nessus) - They all die to disint + possibly weird/cod. Fume likes: Living cold (Cania) Pyrexic fume (Phleg, Cania), Malefic Wind (Malb) - They die to gust. That's 9 priority targets that can posses a treat if go unchecked. Then the real list of Pariah killers. Soul Shell (dis, min, styg, malad), Gelugon (Styg, Cania), Mammon's Tear (Min) and Ichor of ? (Nessus) - These you cant instakill your self. I suppose Excruciarch, Orthons and Narzugon deserve honorable mentions. That means average every 2nd spawn has something that can kill you if you play lazy, but honestly, dying to anything but rolling a 1 on para ortho/narz is bad play and therefor disregarded in Pariah conversation. Now many will say what about Erinyes, Advespa and Malebranches that will dom/kd you. If none of the list above is alive, you dont care. They die to kb shields. You can also disint Eri, if have a party uuu protects from kd.
Then to answer Blazin's question as in should he keep playing pariah having a sorc. Pariah shines the most at 2xD + as each demi gives +2 trans SP which no other caster gets. Road to there is way more boring and probably consists different spell selection (meteor for example). Pariah requires more reincs than a sorc does, as you are encouraged to do one for hells, abyss and limbo. Sorc can do hells/abyss with same build (and be more useful in abos, ely), this means reaching lvl 80 is easier on Sorc. Pariah I'd say is far better suited for learning to lowman, which means more runs can happen. I'm an arcane caster lower. I'd say play both.
Trans + Evoc on the levelling process, illu on paragons. Requires a spell focus illu item for ghostly visage (can be augged or use lowbie bracer or something else untill tia staff). Conju focus item also recommend for evard AB. Focus on being a dmg caster with disint. Lvl 6: disint, freezing sphere, chain lightning - lvl 7 thunderclaps, delayd fb - lvl 9 meteor to cover dmg types. Has very easy time levelling in desert/db/thids - in thids thunderclap into 2 freezing sphere kills them, a bit slower than casting 1-2 cods but it works. Or can just single target disint.
What about Abyss? Once you've completed few hell cycles and learnt the ropes with pariah, you can reinc. Then there's also the failsafe. You can become a sorc CC with epics for 3 months and then reinc into a real sorc. But I alrdy have a sorc, why would I turn pariah into another one..? Trust me, having 2 different focus sorcs is only a upside, not a burden. All this ofcourse requires you to enjoy playing an arcane.
Edit: I didnt mean to sound like pariah is no good in abyss. Necro focus becomes way way better there and there for suggesting the reinc for it. Dmg style does still work, but not quite as strong - sorc pulls further ahead in comparison of the two because they can have way more instakills at their disposal.
There are a few choices more suited to melee than a pariah with a spell book advantage included.
Paladin are critical immune, have high damage, high damage immunity and can splash WM and HS for additional maximum tank damage, can make stable two handed builds. BG are worse than them at some of those things and must use fighter instead of one of the prestige classes (for a mediocre poison immunity, greater smite targeting good foes and sneak attack).
Battle clerics tend to top other tanks in defense due several powerful buffs, including Greater restoration in hells and beyond (worth 10-65% phy imm). It's never bad to have IoF and additional Miracle/Serendipitous Forethought.
Baneknights are quite tough, with good saves and critical immunity. They lack melee physical damage bonuses tough.
Staffmasters use a different type of defense (mostly 90% concealment) but have good damage modifier outside critical hits (they are lousy at critical hits) //they have less two handed damage than other classes since they don't get the additional 40%. Stormlords have pretty good AC, some cool spells, but isn't good at damage and lacks spell DC. If you put ESF Evoc (Immute) PSK abj and PSK Conjuration your party will be thankful. Perhaps a BFM caster with full transformation (Storm of Flames) would suit better that tough mage fantasy (it's still worse than a regular sorcerer or wizard). The battle variety lacks physical damage bonuses, but is otherwise interesting.
Ok so I've made and AP and I have a few questions because the build I'm using doesn't make much sense to me. There are no feats for weapons, and only feats for two spell schools (Trans & Necro). How can I hit anything if I have no chosen weapon? How does my AB go up? Is it Constitution based? That's where all the feats and points seem to be going.
I was under the impression this was a buffed high dps tank.
Just to be clear, and remove any confusion based on existence ingame of "melee pariah" lately, I intend to provide a public service and ensure no more new or old returning players are under the impression that pariah quasiclass is designed to be a tank or has special changes to class mechanics that improve AB.
Essentially it's a caster that uses Con as primary casting stat (affecting spell DC as normal sorc uses Cha, with Con mod applied instead), but as well it uses Con score for SP (spell penetration) on trans spells while raging (and +2 bonus on non-trans). It's important to note that CL (caster level) is determined by sorc + barb level, but it is capped by Con score, meaning at L40 you need 40 Con, L60 you need 60 Con, etc to be at full CL.
Builds indeed focus entirely and primarily on maxing Con and spell schools because it's a spellcaster, not a bufftank or caster-tank hybrid, and Con is not affecting AB.
I hope this helps make things more transparent for you or others confused lately by appearance of some players choosing to create melee pariahs.
Thank you very much for clearing all that up for me! Now that I know this is just a nothing type of mage there is no way I'm going to waste anymore time leveling this toon up. I have wasted hours on this toon that I will never get back. I swear the last thing I need to do is learn how to play a quasi sorc. I can barely play the pure one I have. I can't thank you enough for clearing up my confusion! Thank You! Thank You! THANK YOU!