|
|
Post by Terankar on May 15, 2017 10:02:56 GMT
Today I was running with a few vets and none of them have been using the Champion of Torm.
The more I look at the class, the less I get as to why no one is playing it.
Did something break the use of this class?
It seems to be really good for damage builds and in general a very effective class to build around.
Does anyone know what happened?
|
|
|
|
Post by woqued on May 15, 2017 10:27:43 GMT
CoT is fine. They have very strong class features especially if you aren't very rich. Paragon Weapon Alternate has made it even easier / more viable to go 1h+shield and 2h style which makes CoT very sturdy if needed and fairly high damage even without Wraps or (for other classes) investing in Harper Scout.
That being said, damage avoiding class features [ac, edodge, conceal sources] are the flavour of the last two years and they are easier/better for 2h style in Limbo/Abyss and only get better the richer/higherlvl/higherdemi you get. High tank dmg is one of the most valuable qualities in a party in Limbo; taking hits that deal massive esoteric/exotic (limbo) or any form of flash infliction(abyss) is bad bad for CoT and might mention a 2h barb while at it. Other classes with dodgy features take less of those massive dmg intake sources than a CoT does, even if CoT can be very durable and the inner restoration / extra attack / mind immunity are all well and good.
I think it's a great starting class for a tank player personally, and can work in any area in the game. Then again, you're hard put trying to justify playing a CoT at high levels over a Paladin/BG/Monk/FTR, or the utility tanks of various types. You can't get OP gear for every tank you play, so you pick the one you can pull off the best. That's usually not a CoT in Abyss/Limbo, and the CoT would need it more than the others.
CoT is fine. It's a good class.
|
|
|
|
Post by fallenwizard on May 15, 2017 12:35:47 GMT
/thread
|
|
|
|
Post by Raj on May 15, 2017 14:13:38 GMT
Best selfish melee class from 1 to 80, for the rich and the poor, for the drunk and the lazy one.
Just don't fail in the trap of thinking they can smite or should raise charisma because reasons.
Also go pure.
|
|
|
|
Post by Raj on May 15, 2017 14:44:15 GMT
Other classes with dodgy features take less of those massive dmg intake sources than a CoT does, even if CoT can be very durable and the inner restoration / extra attack / mind immunity are all well and good.   /troll |
|
|
|
Post by simpetar on May 15, 2017 14:55:29 GMT
Cute, but not everybody has access to huge stockpile Goggles that lasts for hours  Btw where does that 5 "Other" AC come from? 2 AS, 2 CA and 1 from.... where? 120+ CA you can maintain? |
|
|
|
Post by Raj on May 15, 2017 14:58:18 GMT
5 monk and 80+ ca. Got expertise as overkill button too yo!
Otoh CoT immunities give lot of leeway with gear composition, wearing GG and Wraps on other 2handers is not always viable.
It was a troll showoff anyway, the classic paladin splash in medium armor and higher str can go 2handed/swap to 1h+shield, with or without improved expertise/pow atk depending on situation and sport better phys imms/damage, and would be the recommended version that works in hells/abyss with low manteinance as well. I actually completed limbo with that version, this one would work better with fewer tanks in team.
|
|
|
|
Post by Terankar on May 15, 2017 15:47:53 GMT
So how is the paladin better?
I totally get the usage of the character like you just showed, plus you get a melee character that has SR decrease and great dmg boost from wpn spec.
|
|
|
|
Post by simpetar on May 15, 2017 15:59:14 GMT
Paladin gets (cha/2) shield AC, but it doesn't stack with any wisdom bonus, few handy buffs (Aura of Glory and Divine Favor among others) and most notably Holy Sword which can bypass breach immunity (handy in Abo, the paladin playground, and few other places). Compared to CoTs, paladins lose all specific mind immunities, soak (AoG partly makes up for that), self restoration and their crit immunity and other buffs are dispellable.
|
|
|
|
Post by woqued on May 15, 2017 17:08:12 GMT
Paladin gets (cha/2) shield AC, but it doesn't stack with any wisdom bonus, few handy buffs (Aura of Glory and Divine Favor among others) and most notably Holy Sword which can bypass breach immunity (handy in Abo, the paladin playground, and few other places). Compared to CoTs, paladins lose all specific mind immunities, soak (AoG partly makes up for that), self restoration and their crit immunity and other buffs are dispellable. Pala gets the free saves and more stats (the extra cha for dmg scaling), as such it's easier to get sufficient numbers in everything (but has to invest in wis/cha on top of str/dex for all the stuff). CoT/Ftr/Monk is a super endgame build imo, will end up low ac/imms if not super geared, leveled and demi. Tbh I'm not sure how Raj got good enough saves on that  magic Paladin also has lesser restore (instant cast) which you can use in dire straits a few times (no excessive spellslots for spamming available), can give crit immunity to someone else, blah blah poster child of freebies; but quite susceptible to buffs being dispelled. Then again, if a CoT runs out of divine wrath due instakill or otherwise they are super sad too. Edit: not sure why I quoted simpetar instead of Kaos but oh well. |
|
|
|
Post by Raj on May 15, 2017 19:00:59 GMT
I quote myself instead of woki because I like me better  CoT saves bug the sheet a bit, adding the +15 from sacred defense that don't stack with universal save boost and fall under the +20 magical cap fwiw. Just a thing to know when planning CoT builds, but on the recommended paladin splash ones there's usually no need to raise saves much, with the exception of one or two feats to boost the willpower (main issue, Solars domination check and if you're not half guardinal/using vestige boots, cast in stone). |
|
|
|
Post by Terankar on May 15, 2017 19:19:48 GMT
Paladin gets (cha/2) shield AC, but it doesn't stack with any wisdom bonus, few handy buffs (Aura of Glory and Divine Favor among others) and most notably Holy Sword which can bypass breach immunity (handy in Abo, the paladin playground, and few other places). Compared to CoTs, paladins lose all specific mind immunities, soak (AoG partly makes up for that), self restoration and their crit immunity and other buffs are dispellable. Pala gets the free saves and more stats (the extra cha for dmg scaling), as such it's easier to get sufficient numbers in everything (but has to invest in wis/cha on top of str/dex for all the stuff). CoT/Ftr/Monk is a super endgame build imo, will end up low ac/imms if not super geared, leveled and demi. Tbh I'm not sure how Raj got good enough saves on that magic Paladin also has lesser restore (instant cast) which you can use in dire straits a few times (no excessive spellslots for spamming available), can give crit immunity to someone else, blah blah poster child of freebies; but quite susceptible to buffs being dispelled. Then again, if a CoT runs out of divine wrath due instakill or otherwise they are super sad too. Edit: not sure why I quoted simpetar instead of Kaos but oh well. It's easy! You missclicked! |
|
Btw where does that 5 "Other" AC come from? 2 AS, 2 CA and 1 from.... where? 120+ CA you can maintain? 
magic