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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 23:57:14 GMT
If you rely on reincarnation then you can get better stats on a Radiance Genasi turner, with demigod stats unlocking planar turning at level 63 so no need to invest too much into WIS /confuzzled here. RG has no wis bonus whatsoever, but Planar Turning needs both 25 wis and cha. Even with x2 bonuses and 1 point from PLs, you'd need to take 3x Great Wisdom - assuming you start with 18 cha and 17 wis at character creation (no other option if you are optimalizing). Yes, you will end up with 2 more cha than HC and the rest of RG bonuses will ameliorate the horrible starting stats a little bit (you will still fail any serious stat check). At the same time however you are trading 2 LL and 1 epic (!) feat for 3 PL feats, that doesn't look like a great deal. 2 cha is worth everything. Without question. also, you can use 2 stats from pl, not only 1. if u start 17 wis you need 2x great wisdom. I sacrificed sun+construct btw.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 0:32:00 GMT
or just wait for a half-janni and make the greatest one button toon on the server
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 0:37:19 GMT
But wait it is actually two buttons you have to use prayer..!
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Post by simpetar on Jul 17, 2017 6:03:10 GMT
/confuzzled here. RG has no wis bonus whatsoever, but Planar Turning needs both 25 wis and cha. Even with x2 bonuses and 1 point from PLs, you'd need to take 3x Great Wisdom - assuming you start with 18 cha and 17 wis at character creation (no other option if you are optimalizing). Yes, you will end up with 2 more cha than HC and the rest of RG bonuses will ameliorate the horrible starting stats a little bit (you will still fail any serious stat check). At the same time however you are trading 2 LL and 1 epic (!) feat for 3 PL feats, that doesn't look like a great deal. 2 cha is worth everything. Without question. also, you can use 2 stats from pl, not only 1. if u start 17 wis you need 2x great wisdom. I sacrificed sun+construct btw. The latest level for the second PL wis point to kick in is 71 - you need to take PT at 72 and the 2 domains at lvl 75 and 78. You cannot hope to get the second point in time, it's a very risky move impossible for that to happen. When you take a look at the PL stat distribution chart, you will see that by lvl 71 only the first half of the batch is done and the other hasn't started yet. Ditching Sun will cripple your turning in whole Thanatos and other interesting places.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 6:26:31 GMT
2 cha is worth everything. Without question. also, you can use 2 stats from pl, not only 1. if u start 17 wis you need 2x great wisdom. I sacrificed sun+construct btw. The latest level for the second PL wis point to kick in is 71 - you need to take PT at 72 and the 2 domains at lvl 75 and 78. You cannot hope to get the second point in time, it's a very risky move impossible for that to happen. When you take a look at the PL stat distribution chart, you will see that by lvl 71 only the first half of the batch is done and the other hasn't started yet. Ditching Sun will cripple your turning in whole Thanatos and other interesting places. I never mentioned anything about taking PT at level 72, so your post is irrelevant. Ditching +1 dc will cripple your turner in *all* areas. Therefore, HC is objectively worse.
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Post by simpetar on Jul 17, 2017 7:40:26 GMT
Ok, I'll try to clarify it. If you intend to use demi bonuses and PLs to "save" some stat points as RG (that was the whole premise), the latest level you can take PT is 72. That means you need to have 25 base wisdom prior to that, or you won't have enough feats to take PT and 2 domain powers. In other words, unless you plan to take only 1 extra domain in PLs (for a very specialized build), you won't be able ot take advantage of the whole +2 wis PLs give you. "Sacrificing" 1 DC for broader ability use is pretty common occurrence - especially when HC turners with "1 less DC" are doing perfectly fine. DC in the long run means how fast the ability will take effect (or how many attempts it takes for the enemy to fail the save). 1 DC less translates in slightly longer, while if you skip Sun domain, you will never be able to even stun any end game undead period. Also the higher demi group, the more paragons cannot be destroyed at all, so DC is irrelevant, only TP matters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 7:49:56 GMT
HG forums in a nutshell: > New player asks basic questions about building his first UR-race Turner. > Inactive long-time players debate optimal BUR-race/build for Paragon toons with multiple demi-iterations.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 7:52:02 GMT
I see. Even with sun domain, I'd say rad gen comes out ahead. +1 dc affects more than just destruction dc (namely stuff like rebuke/banish) and is more valuable than what HC nets you (ultimately, more defenses of marginal benefit).
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Post by Raj on Jul 17, 2017 7:53:13 GMT
You called me Inactive ;(
Otoh, "turners suck make a proper caster cleric" reply ended the debate prematurely.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 7:54:45 GMT
HG forums in a nutshell:> New player asks basic questions about building his first UR-race Turner. > Inactive long-time players debate optimal BUR-race/build for Paragon toons with multiple demi-iterations. I do my part where I can.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 7:57:11 GMT
You called me Inactive ;( Otoh, "turners suck make a proper caster cleric" reply ended the debate prematurely. Nah, Half-Janni comment was better.
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Post by simpetar on Jul 17, 2017 8:07:06 GMT
HG forums in a nutshell:> New player asks basic questions about building his first UR-race Turner. > Inactive long-time players debate optimal BUR-race/build for Paragon toons with multiple demi-iterations. Hehe, touche As soon as I figure out a way to run NWN and HG on mac, I'll stop being inactive.
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Post by chainlink on Jul 17, 2017 13:39:31 GMT
Forgetting all the multi-demi blather above the minimum race requirement to make a half-effective turner is the secret Aasimar which gets +2 Cha and Wisdom (I know as I made one of these in Hardcore mode before I procured Fallen Angel and Half Celestial (mostly through use of the afore mentioned Turner) and this was perfectly playable. Unfortunately Archamages Turning the Tide build has vanished and this was the original baseline for making an effective turner, feel free to PM me and I'll give you my slant on how to do it.
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