ra
Peasant
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Post by ra on Aug 31, 2017 4:55:41 GMT
HI, just wanted to report a problem with auctions. Seems some people are bidding on their own items, which increases the price, and makes the items cost more than they otherwise would. I tried to buy some race books at the last minute, and would have gotten a good price, since no one was bidding on them. Then someone came in and started bidding, but on every book save one. Thought it was a little strange, but I shrugged it off, and tried to bid again on the 2 books I wanted. However, prices had been raised a great deal. Then I got the message in the screen shot attached below. You can read it for yourself. What isn't in there is the name of the person who had asked him to raise the price. Someone named Rajah is what he told me in another message. Seems the going rate is supposed to be much higher, though no one wanted to buy the books. The auction was ending at the reset, which was coming fast, so the books would have sold for at a price that seems to have been below what the seller wanted. When I came back after reset all books save the one I mentioned earlier (The Juggernaut, which is mentioned in the screenshot below) were gone. They had not sold. They had simply been removed by the person who had been asked to bid on behalf of this Rajah fellow, in hopes of generating a higher sale price. I suppose you guys can figure out the rest. This doesn't seem like a kosher thing to do to me, bidding on your own stuff to vastly inflate the price. Just my thoughts. You'll have to come to your own conclusions as to whether or not this is right, or not. Either way it seemed like something that should be brought to everyone's attention, as it effects everyone
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Post by Raj on Aug 31, 2017 5:50:42 GMT
Not sure how to take this I put them at base 100 millions exactly to encourage newbies economy, and tbh if I really wanted to exploit the system I could upbid my own stuff with alternate accounts without involving more people. Last time I talked with lordkas guy he was buying my stuff that was not getting bid on at all to re-sell it and make a profit, not rly nice but guess fine w/e. Lmk at what price was Juggy at, and your account in game.
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ra
Peasant
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Post by ra on Aug 31, 2017 6:45:07 GMT
I can only say what the fellow told me, and as you can see from the screen shot he is quite clear. The owner of those books told him to upbid those books. And yes, I guess you could do that, bid on your own books from some other account. But from what I understand it is frowned upon, and a record of your toon upbidding your own books, simply from another account that is known to be yours would exist. Something you no doubt know. I know it just from common sense. So, it really does make perfect sense that you would have someone else bidding on your own books. Why would Lord Kas lie?
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Post by LordKas on Aug 31, 2017 7:03:23 GMT
The fun side of this case, is that you waited 10 days (21/08/2017) to prove to everyone that you're unable to make simple reasoning. First of all, you should read the sign that explaining how do the auctions work, whereas your brain told you that I, even though I was in the middle of a run, were there to continually increase my bet Secondly you have supposed that I was talking about Raj, since we were both in the tavern (apparently afk but actually we were talking in groups on which abyss go) when you joined the tavern and you put your bet. Other than that, before you know I informed you don't even know what raj was the seller. Your brain has simply done 2 + 2 on the fact that I meant to have bidded an item of raj, when in fact I was referring to another player: as raj himself said, he could have done it alone, no need to ask others. The peak of noobness was when, after I explained you how do the auctions work, you assumed that your bet would be the last and then, probably, your brain suggested some dishonest action useless was attempting to explain how the system works because you can read the clock, but you don't want to read a sign! even if you are taught. I also asked a wealthy player to explain you the auction system but you just ignored his !tell. Because you can read the clock, of course! At this point, I thought you had figured out that if I point 700 and you 300, the maximum bet would remain mine with 301 but i thought wrong: following your brain, while i was in run, i also was updating bid Anyway, someone else exceeded my bid and vaguely remember, the book was sold for more than one billion
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Post by Raj on Aug 31, 2017 7:20:08 GMT
I was going to write an auction guide but I'm honestly baffled/overwhelmed by your screenshot collection now Long story short, it's pointless to wait for last reset to bid on an item, just type the max you're willing to spend on it. The final value will be last bid+1 gold, if it's under your own one, and you'll win the item (spending less than you originally typed) or your bid+1 gold, if somebody overbid you (and you can't be pissed because you didn't lose money you couldn't afford to spend anyway).
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Post by LordKas on Aug 31, 2017 7:22:10 GMT
UPDATE: Now i see why you dusted off this figure of the rookie, after 10 days: it's because when you joined the server in which we were planning avernus, I asked you if I crafted your weapons? Did you feel touched in newbiepride, when other players told you that with your level 35 weapons you could be detrimental to the party, because some monsters heals of certain type of dmg?! Again, many people have tried to teach you and also this time you did not wanted to learn, simply ignoring and sending message (to a friend of mine who showed me the following screen) talking about a 10 days thing you took it badly Without present any valid proof, just trash talk on the player who let you leech many times since when you created your toon. Just for: Some people said that this player reminds him rockcutter/sosis and many people sent me !tell telling i was right (no needed but appreciated <3)
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Post by Test on Aug 31, 2017 8:26:00 GMT
There are several things about both this thread, and the barrage of comments on this topic that I received today, that I find disturbing. This most obvious piece of stupidity was the repeated suggestion that was being made ingame today that Raj would be running an AH scam because he needs gold. This is obscenely stupid in that Raj most likely has enough gold and rare items to permanently hire Asmo as his pet boy-friday. I am convinced that the following statement is true in all ways: Not sure how to take this I put them at base 100 millions exactly to encourage newbies economy, and tbh if I really wanted to exploit the system I could upbid my own stuff with alternate accounts without involving more people. Last time I talked with lordkas guy he was buying my stuff that was not getting bid on at all to re-sell it and make a profit, not rly nice but guess fine w/e. Lmk at what price was Juggy at, and your account in game. Not long after I returned to HG Raj was merrily soloing Shed3. I logged in and asked if I could come for a sightseeing tour. Not only did he invite me but he took time to offer his knowledge freely and help me start learning Shed. At the end of the run, which was in reality 'all Raj', he very kindly asked me if I had any use for the BUR book that dropped - and was going to give it to me freely. I let him know that I already had it tagged to a couple of accounts and thanked him for the offer but declined. At that point Raj explained that he was putting them up for sale in the AH at very low prices to help newbies make a start on the server. The point is, Raj is a good guy at heart - just don't let him read that as he may think I am trying to thwart his reputation. I understand that both LordKas and Raj can take a little getting used to depending on where you are from (as can I). This is because English is not their first language (it was not mine either, although I have been in English speaking nations for so long now that it has long become my language of thought on most topics). Raj is a respected member of the community who goes out of his way to help people. LordKas is a nice guy to run with who also clearly knows what he is doing. I have seen them both volunteer time to help people. It is a real shame that this thread is here on the forums. Perhaps next time speak with a good DM, like Sabre or KE, directly if you feel unable to resolve an issue with a specific player.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 8:35:43 GMT
moral of this thread is dont go around accusing other players of exploits when you clearly didnt read the information provided (on the auctions) i actually laughed at the part about raj bumping prices up to make more money (especially considering he deliberately started VERY obviously low so new players have a chance at some BUR races, those books can be sold for far more or traded for useful endgame gear), 1 billion is a $1 note to raj
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ra
Peasant
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Post by ra on Aug 31, 2017 8:52:13 GMT
It is right there in his own comment. Did none of you read the conversation I cut, and pasted, and placed in my own thread? He is quite clear. It is small, so just click on it, and it will enlarge. He is quite clear. He says he is upbidding because the owner of those books asked him to, and I checked the webdash auction sheet and the owner was Rajah. Nothing else is relevant really. Also not sure that saying someone doesn't need gold so this isn't the case is an actual argument. Nor does me not wanting to join a run because someone won't invite me until I tell him about my gear in any way relevant, and is just a distraction from the content of the thread. I should enlarge the clip of my conversation with Lord Kas? Or can you click it and read for yourself? No misunderstanding what he said. I can understand wanting to defend a friend, but there is really no way to misinterpret his words. Unless you think I cooked up the conversation where he said "The owner of the books asked me to upbid them." What does any of this other nonsense have to do with that?
Please click on attachment. I am sure all of you can see it. Upbidding books for book owner. Upbidded to 700 mill. He essentially admitted it. Enough with the disinformation guys. No way to disguise the fact that he was upbidding for the book owner. He says it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 10:39:47 GMT
They had simply been removed by the person who had been asked to bid on behalf of this Rajah fellow, in hopes of generating a higher sale price. --- I can only say what the fellow told me, and as you can see from the screen shot he is quite clear. I have to say, I found your use of the word "fellow" in the above posts (and screenshots) quite interesting. These days it's far more commonly used as an adjective (eg: "my fellow companions"), so using it as a noun in this way stands out a little. A quick Forum Search for the word "fellow" revealed quite a small number of users (or just one, depending on how informed you are) who use the word in a similar fashion. Now this is hardly irrefutable evidence by itself, but in the context of the classic tank build, shouting for specifically randomized items (EG: armor randomized to +15), and the meltdown in these posts aimed at Raj/LordKas... I already had my eye on your name from some random Webdash checks, but this more or less proves it. Welcome back to the server BBOD was the fellows attempt to try and be clever. A fail. Bbod makes a poor tank in any number of ways. First off it cannot think, it cannot follow directions very well, it cannot close in gaps in a line very well, or selectively target enemies. An epic fail that one. By the way, you would be wise "not" to trust Paradoom, and others saying I am someones reincarnation. Just last week he attacked a poor player named dirc and said he was someone he was clearly not, all because the poor fellow had the audacity to agree with the post about ways to make the server better. This fellow is annoyed only that I do not know who he is, and I still don’t know who the heck he is. I have never run with him as far as I know, and to be honest with the echo chamber that most of you exist in you get so butt hurt if anyone disagrees with you that it is far too easy to form resentment of your fellow players, instead of trying to get along with them. As for this fellow he clearly has multiple accounts, something I have never had despite his words, yet something he himself attacks. More hypocrisy. The Dante fellow who just joined blamed low numbers for him having to wait for a week to get just one tag. I don't mind being attacked if I am debating with a fellow about a subject that causes them rancor. Generally it means I won the argument. Invariably it does mean that. Hi I'm Theo, aka Teddy. I'm a Chinese guy living in Beijing. --- A fellow I met my second day on the server stumbled into an area I was in, and accused me of stealing his area and xp, and we had a little disagreement, after which the guy asked me if I was rockcutter, to which I said no, and that was it. That fellow members of this fellows guild have bailed on runs in the past, and one did so that very night seemed to escape his notice, or caring. You reply inaccurately, it isn't actually that long at all, it only looks like it because there are actually 3 posts tied together into one. However, don't knock a fellow for being able to reply point by point in a succinct way. And it did not even take me that long. Everything is relative when it comes to skills and things we do, what seems long to some is woefully short for others, keep this in mind. The fellow has a problem with sarcasm. Really
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Post by simpetar on Aug 31, 2017 10:55:36 GMT
Seller asking other people to upbid items, has quite a few logical explanations, none of which are wrong from economy or moral standpoint - although it is perfectly undestandable that you are upset after losing the bid. You are fighting windmills in this conversation. It will neither get you the book (unless Raj generously gives it to you), nor make you right about how the auction system works. Above all else, it will make people avoid grouping up with you - which would be shame, because that is how you 1. get books yourself or 2. get enough yummy gear / gold to trade for them. A lone fighter on his own can achieve next to nothing, as you have probably discovered by now.
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Post by chainlink on Aug 31, 2017 11:38:56 GMT
This is why I don't do auctions, or ebay or any of that stuff as it does my head in. Simple answer if you want an item send out some Bazaar messages I'm sure you'll find people willing to trade for things of use to them or in some cases gold, much less painful than hoping you get lucky and can outbid people who've been here years and have very deep pockets indeed.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 31, 2017 14:02:30 GMT
moral of this thread is dont go around accusing other players of exploits when you clearly didnt read the information provided (on the auctions) Actually, it wouldn't even be an exploit. People are free to spend their gold how they want. Basic market economics ensures that the seller has no real need to 'bid up' prices by himself or through an intermediary. He can simply set a high reserve. At worst an upbidder would be creating a false impression of demand, but at root all the transactions are purely voluntary, and if the demand is significantly lower than the false impression, other suppliers will simply undercut the price. That's why auctions work the way they do, and why we have coded our auction system the way we did. Funky
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 15:12:37 GMT
moral of this thread is dont go around accusing other players of exploits when you clearly didnt read the information provided (on the auctions) Actually, it wouldn't even be an exploit. People are free to spend their gold how they want. Basic market economics ensures that the seller has no real need to 'bid up' prices by himself or through an intermediary. He can simply set a high reserve. At worst an upbidder would be creating a false impression of demand, but at root all the transactions are purely voluntary, and if the demand is significantly lower than the false impression, other suppliers will simply undercut the price. That's why auctions work the way they do, and why we have coded our auction system the way we did. Funky heh well i guess that puts a lock on this thread, since its not even an exploit to do the thing being complained about in the first place.
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Post by dynneroth on Aug 31, 2017 17:01:35 GMT
And Funky educates everyone with his years of experience in law and economics. And just so no one reads a tone into that statement, I'm being sincere. This is the basis of contract law, voluntarily entering into an agreement with a second party with defined parameters. Just because one party didn't read the contract doesn't invalidate the contract. And even though I've pulled my hair out with some of the changes made to the in-game economics over the years, the market has remained remarkably stable even with late-game gold glut and inflation.
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