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Post by KnightErrant on Dec 4, 2017 18:45:53 GMT
......Random rambling thoughts from what I've noticed on new player retention....
>New player show up and spends an hour reading/perusing the forums/class change/quasi class documents and thinks this looks like fun, I'll try this build. Logs in and starts having trouble killing stuff at a certain point, asks for help on forum and in-game and is told by nearly everyone "that's not a viable toon/build for endgame" make a Druid, Sorc, Bard, Cleric or Shifter.
> New player logs in and starts playing with a build that worked well on their previous favorite server/s and has trouble killing stuff at a certain point, asks for help on forum or in game and is told by nearly everyone "that's not a viable toon/build for endgame" make a Druid, Sorc, Bard, Cleric or Shifter.
> New player reads about the super cool looking quasi classes they can play here that aren't available on any other server anywhere and logs in to play something new and unique to them and at some point has trouble killing stuff and asks for help on forum or in game and is told by everyone "please don't male a Slinger/GI/PDK/Staffmaster etc" make a Druid, Sorc, Bard, Cleric or Shifter.
eventually... >New player sends tell/PM to staff member "nearly everyone is telling me I can't play in the endgame areas here if I'm not a Druid, Sorc, Bard, Cleric or Shifter" ... "is this true?". Answer's can very per staff member from "play what you enjoy/just have fun" to "the odds of you getting on an Abyss/Limbo run are much better with a core" but the truth (spoken or not) is "no party needs to have a Monk/Assassin/Barbarian/AA/DD/etc to succeed" so getting invited as one of those classes is usually viewed by the party as them doing you a favor by letting you join...
then... >New player either makes a core to try and fit in or does their own thing in the LL areas or burns out when their Assassin/Monk/AA/DD/Slinger/etc can't advance past a certain point.
As a side note: I don't see why we should be rewarding vets for helping new players level toons that the same vets (likely) won't allow or might sometimes begrudgingly allow in their end game parties. As the game stands now there really isn't any good reason for anyone to have more than one non core toon in their vault other than to have some fun or "see how their special abilities work" because they aren't needed to win endgame fights/runs.
.02 KE.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2017 18:46:47 GMT
not sold on the concept itself, either (just an interesting idea that could have some merit to brainstorm), but just to point out there's already a script in place that would work, asmo ammy one's; bankable/xferrable between toons but bound to account. I chose not to mention bound-after-use types because I consider those to still be ‘transferable’ in the context we are discussing, since they can be freely traded/sold before being used. Portable Holes are a nice example of an item that can’t be farmed by high levels without shackling, but that obviously doesn’t stop them being sold to any players who aren’t interested in farming them - I bought most of mine. (Okay not exactly the same as Asmo Ammy script, but you get the idea).
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Post by chirality on Dec 4, 2017 19:11:09 GMT
That's fair, I guess I was thinking bound to account immediately
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pahg
Peasant
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Post by pahg on Dec 5, 2017 3:20:18 GMT
I've copied this over from the other thread incase no one reads it whilst it is still relavant.
A few points:
1) I don't really expect NWN EE to offer much over what we already have at least in terms of graphics.
2) The only point I can see in migrating to NWN EE is to try to pick up new players. Whilst a laudable goal this is going to be difficult to achieve and must be done without pissing off current players.
3) So, port characters; chests; and wallets from the current HG. Try not to lose anything like e.g. bots (living in NZ bots are pretty much essential at many times of day; I struggle to use them and am in awe of people who can solo tough dungeons using them).
4) HG will always be hard for new players: there is a big learning curve because it is so different (and in my opinion much better) than vanilla NWN 1. There are lots of built in biases which make them less useful than vets (items; races; game knoledge) which may make them feel useless and therefore likely to leave.
5) A few suggestions that might help:
- Better information e.g. a simplified wiki builds page which talks about core classes, build goals, and has a few current good open race builds. In particular an uptodate HG version of the spreadsheet character builder would be very useful. As would improving the test build facility: allow players to create test builds for any subrace; allow them to gain tags, demi, double demi etc benefits; allow access to asmo and XR items. In short give (new) players reasons to enthuse and to play for the long game.
- Make reincarnation simpler e.g. remove the two book requirement. Possibly keep the pre immortal rules for post too.
- Make all subraces useful at all levels by adding a heirachy of improved versions (superior, elite, etc) for each subrace. Automatically give a character a book for an improved version of their race when they achieve particular goals (levels, tags, quests, etc).
- Try levelling the playing field for pre imortal characters: a character cant access their player vault or wallet until becoming immortal; remove the xp crystals; make the pre immortal dungeons harder (and hence more interesting). These are the dungeons that a new player will judge the PW on. So they need to be challenging, interesting, and fun (and not just seen as a necessary grind to get to the 'real' post immortal ones).
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Post by Test on Dec 5, 2017 6:57:14 GMT
I've copied this over from the other thread incase no one reads it whilst it is still relavant. A few points: 1) I don't really expect NWN EE to offer much over what we already have at least in terms of graphics. 2) The only point I can see in migrating to NWN EE is to try to pick up new players. Whilst a laudable goal this is going to be difficult to achieve and must be done without pissing off current players. 3) So, port characters; chests; and wallets from the current HG. Try not to lose anything like e.g. bots (living in NZ bots are pretty much essential at many times of day; I struggle to use them and am in awe of people who can solo tough dungeons using them). 4) HG will always be hard for new players: there is a big learning curve because it is so different (and in my opinion much better) than vanilla NWN 1. There are lots of built in biases which make them less useful than vets (items; races; game knoledge) which may make them feel useless and therefore likely to leave. 5) A few suggestions that might help: - Better information e.g. a simplified wiki builds page which talks about core classes, build goals, and has a few current good open race builds. In particular an uptodate HG version of the spreadsheet character builder would be very useful. As would improving the test build facility: allow players to create test builds for any subrace; allow them to gain tags, demi, double demi etc benefits; allow access to asmo and XR items. In short give (new) players reasons to enthuse and to play for the long game. - Make reincarnation simpler e.g. remove the two book requirement. Possibly keep the pre immortal rules for post too. - Make all subraces useful at all levels by adding a heirachy of improved versions (superior, elite, etc) for each subrace. Automatically give a character a book for an improved version of their race when they achieve particular goals (levels, tags, quests, etc). - Try levelling the playing field for pre imortal characters: a character cant access their player vault or wallet until becoming immortal; remove the xp crystals; make the pre immortal dungeons harder (and hence more interesting). Pester me in game. I found a work-around to make the spreadsheet useable.
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Post by Test on Dec 5, 2017 7:00:36 GMT
Jeez i just made a new toon and setting them up with potions is so boring. Give new toons a item which insta buffs them with stone skin, neg protection, haste and all the bulls str kinda spells. +noobs wont even know where to buy the potions This could be a reward for having a 7x toon! At present 7x seems to give nothing? - or am I missing something?
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Post by Retribution on Dec 5, 2017 12:38:53 GMT
I was significantly put off the game due to not being able to access runs due to bad timezone (NZ). This left my main option most times I could play as farming/xp grind towards level 80. I could see a lowbie drop which boosted xp being a good carrot provided it was a large boost. Basically if I played an hour of lowbies on a Tuesday night, then an hour in a party on sat afternoon (busy server period), I would need to get as much/more xp total as I would have if I had just farmed solo on the Tuesday. Basically we could bank xp hours doing lowbies to reclaim when high level xp runs are available for high level toons. You could balance the boost based on player numbers... Fewer lowbies on, larger boost for playing. In any case I will be keeping an eye out, I fall in the category of vet who left as there wasn't opportunity to progress rather than because the game was stale, and an increase in activity might hopefully change that
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Post by terrokawa on Dec 5, 2017 13:03:50 GMT
1% Immunity increase per 5-20 lowbie tag helps? Choosable upon completing the number. Sorry if this has been suggested.
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Post by buddhamind on Dec 5, 2017 19:51:36 GMT
Here's a couple ideas:
1% temporary bonus XP per lowbie tag completed. Applies account-wide, and expires in 1 week.
Consumables like Fey bombs, abhorrent vacuums, potions, etc. Now drop in pre-Hell LL areas only, and they get a power boost.
Slave waystones and hellstones now have a random chance of dropping from any monster on any pre-Hell LL run.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 20:17:35 GMT
1% temporary bonus XP per lowbie tag completed. Applies account-wide, and expires in 1 week. This is kind of intriguing. But it would have to be set up very carefully to avoid being gamed by players 'speed-running' through for the boost (especially if multi-boxing). I suspect that these would just be traded to richer players. It's still helpful because it increases the value of stuff dropping in LL areas making them less pointless to farm, but I don't think it would significantly increase the number of players choosing to run 41-60 toons.
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Post by buddhamind on Dec 7, 2017 3:11:38 GMT
1% temporary bonus XP per lowbie tag completed. Applies account-wide, and expires in 1 week. This is kind of intriguing. But it would have to be set up very carefully to avoid being gamed by players 'speed-running' through for the boost (especially if multi-boxing). I suspect that these would just be traded to richer players. It's still helpful because it increases the value of stuff dropping in LL areas making them less pointless to farm, but I don't think it would significantly increase the number of players choosing to run 41-60 toons. Sure, some would be traded, but it gets players in LLs and it opens up less common runs for farming potential. I don't know about you, but I just love running Desert -> DB -> Thids. /s
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Post by desocupado on Dec 7, 2017 15:19:26 GMT
Sincerely, rewards are a bad way to force people into playing lowbies - it will only work if offer better rewards than higher level content (and doesn't cost opportunity as Raj pointed). The "help" is usually just dragging - plain and simple. /newbie is the real help.
The most realistic way to have veterans playing 1-60 is by having a wipe. But they will rush that content, unless you create an additional contingencies. --Maybe each new character could gain 10 levels for each immortal character you have (up to 40) starting with any corresponding tag but the immortal (helping get more character for 40-60 content quickly). --Maybe each character you tag up fully till immortal grants a cumulative 5% account-wide XP boost - this bonus is forfeit if you use the level skip above. --You can even remove subrace upgrade to incentivize a few more characters.
Removing lost gear on death, key to start run usage, reincarnation restrictions, improving drop quality dramatically could make 1-60 feel less aversive. --Instead of focusing on godly added properties through randomization, good AUGs could be more widespread.
I'm not convinced that the subrace tier system and the random weapon drops add adequate objectives to the overall gameplay experience. --Subraces could be randomly gained with new tags - granting an incentive to do different runs. And as you run out of tags to earn with a single character, make more characters. --There are just too many weapon types creating an artificial market necessity. A token system, with Ixion crafting your weapon could work.
Dice based weapon buffs are a pain and break so many players 1-59 -- I'd suggest to make them self cast only and weaker - while improving weapon by the corresponding amount.
But... A wipe might be better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 11:31:10 GMT
I don't really know much about EE (it sounds to me that it's just some very minor graphical improvements in an attemp to make cash, but we'll see).
What I know, as new player in HG, in that 25-50 area OP mentions, and in the process of deciding if I'm going to stay, is that splitting the playerbase in 2 doesn't really sound like a good idea to keep new players.
Those, along with being stolen important items I'm wearing constantly, are also things that are pretty annoying as new player.
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Post by desocupado on Dec 10, 2017 12:39:28 GMT
I don't really know much about EE (it sounds to me that it's just some very minor graphical improvements in an attemp to make cash, but we'll see). I think it is slated to fix stuff like parry mode, whirlwind, circle kick. It'll probably increase performance allows mount ridding as well.
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Post by chirality on Dec 10, 2017 18:46:50 GMT
eta only 3 days (or beamdog equivalent, anyway )! let's see how long stable semi-finished product takes
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