Turner Questions On My Build

[ubernoobgaming]

Hey guys, currently running a Gnome Ploder but once he hits 50 I got two fallen angel books and am going to reincarnate to a fallen angel turner. I am here to post my build and get input. I know the destruction domain is questionable, but I enjoy having it for those rare cases where it does work, I feel it's worth the investment over LSF: Div. Anyways, here is the build:

Human: Fallen Angel
Str: 8, Dex: 9, Con: 8, Wis:17, Int:8, Cha:18
Pure Cleric, Plant and Fire Domains to start with, reading spell penetration book!
All points into Charisma!

Pre-Epic Feats: SF, GSF: Divination, SF, GSF: Enchantment, Extra Turning, Toughness, Extend Spell, Empower Spell
Epic Feats: G Cha 1-7
Cleric Epic Feats: G Wis 1-3, Planar Turning, ESF: Div, ESF: Ench
Legendary Feats: LL Spell Pen, Domain Sun, Domain Good or Evil (which one?), Domain Destruction, G Cha 8-10
Paragon Feats: Please help, I have never made it to paragon levels and wouldnt know where to start with a turner!
(Just looked at an updated turner build and came up with these for paragon feats, what do you think? LSF: Div, Enchant, PSF: Div, Enchant, PSK: Div, Paragon Spell Penetration) Worried about enchantment for rebuke so I am useful outside of turning some mobs...

So what do you think? Mostly need help with paragon feats! Also, when I get Half-Celestial and upgrade will be adding abjuration foci for banishment.

Thanks!
 - UberNoobGaming

[Raj]

Drop Toughness/Empower for sf/gsf: abj, and leg spell pen for esf: abj.
Once in Paragon levels, take in order lsf/psf/psk div, then leg pen, and leg and paragon abj.

Having magic vestment at epic abj for +18 ac on plate/tower shield, stacking with girdle for +20, will fix some survivability issues, and for higher levels having full dispel/banish and some better buffs is more important than rebuking. It costs some sacrifices (namely, no paragon spell pen, but you're pure and very little offensive spells - just make sure to prayer after NB lands) but it's worth it in the long run, then obviously with half celestial you'll have some flexibility.

Good or Evil makes no difference for gameplay purposes.

[ubernoobgaming]

Thanks Raj! Writing down the changes now! This is what I have now:

Human: Fallen Angel
Str:8, Dex:9, Con:8, Wis:17, Int:8, Cha:18
Pure Cleric, Plant and Fire Domains, Read Spell Pen Book
All points into Charisma!

Pre-Epic Feats: SF: Div, Abjur, Enchant, GSF: Div, Abjur, Enchant, Extra Turning, Extend Spell
Epic Feats: G Cha 1-7
Cleric Epic Feats: G Wis 1-3, Planar Turning, ESF Div, Enchant
Legendary Feats: Domain Sun, Domain Evil, Domain Destruction, ESF Abjur, G Cha 8-10
Paragon Feats: LSF, PSF, PSK Div, Legendary Penetration, LSF, PSF Abjur

Look better? Thanks again, Raj!
 - UberNoobGaming

[thomascovenant]

Mine rock, it's a Half Celestial subrace but maybe you can adapt the build for a Fallen Angel

The build is .... Seraphim of Destruction(60 Cleric) From Rain

highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/19818/seraphim-destruction-60-cleric

[Raj]

Hint: every time you read Greater Ruin on a build it's an outdated one, usually giving up on one more powerful PSK in paragon levels. Or is a palemaster. Or just a bad build.


Ye I'm not sold on using a precious LL feat for Destruction domain for Hells+ but it can be enjoyable while you still have to farm your wealth in LLs. See how it goes, eventually on a future reinc drop for leg spell pen and then scale to paragon rank in PLs.

[desocupado]

I strongly recommend for you to wait until level 60. Turners are more level dependent than ploders due how TR is calculated. Besides that, its more worthwhile to use a build focused in hells (destruction domain isn't worthwhile there, nor is sun) because it offers better loot than any areas before it, on top demigodhood cycles (you need two for best mileage).

You can grab LSF Div and spell penetration instead at LL (or postpone destruction and sun) - that spell penetration will make you land your prayer + battletide wayyy better (thus become a better asset for the party).

Just looked at an updated turner build and came up with these for paragon feats, what do you think? LSF: Div, Enchant, PSF: Div, Enchant, PSK: Div, Paragon Spell Penetration) Worried about enchantment for rebuke so I am useful outside of turning some mobs...

63 PSF: Div
66 PSK: Div
69 Paragon Spell Penetration

I would rather have LSF PSF and PSK abjuration afterwards - so you can wield slag-able gear and help the party in some boss fights.

Truth be told - even in abyss - you can leave undead handling mostly to sorcerers (UtD and sunburst) - and focus on a superior banishment.
Also note that Greater Dispelling don't use wisdom mod (The dispel check is now 1d20 + 1 + (CL / 2) + (Abjuration foci * 8) vs a DC of (11 + target HD).)

[chirality]

Unless you plan to exclusively play in hells (unlikely with current population) i'd take sun in LL for sure. Without it you cant even pop souls in db (or uro temple map) which is very disappointing. Its nice to be able to at least do that and well worth the feat imo.

I would definitely take leg spell pen in LL, not even waiting for reinc to test. Prayer and bt is invaluable for your own turning offense as well as party support (as mentioned above). Note that i still agree w/ deso that sorcs will be killing undead lot more efficiently in abyss (and db/uro too, ye, but only if they have to, aka u cant) but still its a big shame to do one of those ll runs as a turner and not be able to pop undeads (and unlike abyss where ur guaranteed to have a sorc, db is something u can solo and lls lot more likely to lack a sunburst-er, and even when sorc is there, then they can focus other jobs while u kill undead for lack of anything else to do)

If youre set on destruction, go ahead, but the mechanics for it are really bad and its a big waste especially for non-op zomgdc turner, even outside hell (and there you will be a bigger hazard to party due succeeded save->kb without a high dc; lot more likely for machines to be ploded/disinted by partymate with better dc caster). So, not to talk you out of it, but yeah.. efinitely recommend dropping to squeeze quicker access for better feats.

[ubernoobgaming]

So instead of destruction, run leg and paragon penetration? Build looks like this now:

Human: Fallen Angel
Str:8, Dex:9, Con:8, Wis:17, Int:8, Cha:18
Pure Cleric, Plant and Fire Domains, Read Spell Pen Book
All points into Charisma!

Pre-Epic Feats: SF: Div, Abjur, Enchant, GSF: Div, Abjur, Enchant, Extra Turning, Extend Spell
Epic Feats: G Cha 1-7
Cleric Epic Feats: G Wis 1-3, Planar Turning, ESF Div, Enchant
Legendary Feats: Domain Sun, Domain Evil, LL Spell Penetration, ESF Abjur, G Cha 8-10
Paragon Feats: LSF, PSF, PSK Div, Paragon Penetration, LSF, PSF Abjur

- UberNoobGaming