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Post by drunkenboastor on Feb 28, 2020 19:14:45 GMT
The change is something I am accepting of it. I do not like having random properties of characters, because the order is set without an option of change, it is in effect not random and I can adapt my character builds to suit the situation.
To make this level of a radical change without informing players is not good. You say this is the way it has always been intended, but it has never been implemented in that manner since the introduction of level 80. Players have adapted over the years to how it has been implemented. The complexities in character building is something I love about this game, I am sure there are many players who have similar feelings, this change radically alters how I will in the future design and play my characters. Big change without notice is not easy to accept.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 28, 2020 20:25:40 GMT
OK will keep an eye out for any characters we have that end up with odd stats at 80. One further question about this change (not -HC- related), if the first stat point is set on character logging in can you not just keep using a reincarnation slot level up to 63 then delete and redo until you get the first stat you want (1 in 6 chance)? We'll still have to verify that the oddness was from this, which will be a pain. As far as delete and redo, it's going to be based on setting the stat in the reinc slot, so you can't redo over and over and get a different result. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 28, 2020 20:27:24 GMT
No. It’s now locked. Whatever is assigned for the duration of that reinc period is now locked in if you reuse the same character name, and possibly even if you don’t. Actually, I'm fairly sure what you hit was the accidental reversion. We're recoding it this evening, and until it is, our other temp fix is back. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 28, 2020 20:32:21 GMT
FunkySwerveI understand the intention was for this to be random. It always has been random and the player base figured out the system and worked the system to achieve their desired results. I also understand how you feel about player power creep and player power and wanting to control for that. My ask is, give the player population this feature back. This is such a core facet to our designs, how we do what we do, the excitement we have with getting a specific book, or a new piece of gear which unlocks different things for us, etc. It goes contrary to how you feel about player power which you have already expressed in this post. I get it. You want to minimize it. I just ask that it not be this. Please reverse this change. Your point on quality of life makes sense. This goes beyond QoL. But, it is still just so critical to what a large portion of your player base does and how they do it. It would be a HUGE bonus to the players, I mean huge. If you want to take it further, let us pick. Even a reversal would be a significant win though and one we would all appreciate very much. Very politely asked, but I feel I should clarify something. The point is not to minimize power, but to balance things. The fact that it's a huge bonus is part of the issue, though I think part of it is the ability to just have one build template and follow it, which is a QoL aspect of this. If you have some suggestions to offset this, then by all means, make them. I can't think of any. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 28, 2020 20:41:50 GMT
The change is something I am accepting of it. I do not like having random properties of characters, because the order is set without an option of change, it is in effect not random and I can adapt my character builds to suit the situation. That's why only the first stat was chosen to be random, yes. This isn't a change, it's a bug fix. And I do value transparency, but why is it that players expect it to run only one way? If you have a question about whether something is a bug or exploit, you can always ask. Seldom see that happen, because players often prefer to take advantage instead of reporting. This is flatly wrong. It has always been implemented. The fact that you figured out a way to exploit it doesn't change that. We try to avoid big changes, and I agree with your take on them. Slow and incremental change is best. I disagree that this is a change, from the perspective of design. It's implementation of an antiexploit to prevent a workaround of intended function. The fact that you've been exploiting it for a long time does not vest any kind of right to it. If you want to avoid big 'change' of this kind, report up front, and ask if the 'adaptation' is ok. We determined a long time ago, as a Team, that allowing fixed stat allocations in PL opened the door to too many problems with balancing. If you can think of an offset of comparable magnitude that would have less impact on QoL, I'm all ears. Funky
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Post by condude on Mar 1, 2020 6:56:23 GMT
What if you fixed the first stat to always be Strength? It gives tanks a boost at the expense of caster (It'd cycle through Str/Con/Dex first), and solves all of this.
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Post by Paradoom on Mar 1, 2020 8:54:40 GMT
What if you fixed the first stat to always be Strength? It gives tanks a boost at the expense of caster (It'd cycle through Str/Con/Dex first), and solves all of this. That solves nothing and especially it breaks building. I think the main fuzz comes from the major inconvinience of the need/wish to min/max your character. One thing I personally enjoy alot about building characters. And this, even if originaly designed/planned to behave that way, just puts a ton of extra wasted time on achieving this. Just like DB I plan my builds miticulously and improve them over time fine-tweaking them to my liking. And this requires calculatable results on a build. A change like this just forces one to reincarnate over and over and over until you have what you need. So my mainpoint is: This game, as much as I love it as hardcore gamer, consumes too much time already. Things like this rob me again of alot more time for nothing. In the end I will have the same result on my characters as before, but with days of extra effort in worst case. So just unrandomize the order of the stat point gain, but keep the really random starting point is my suggestion.
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Post by woqued on Mar 1, 2020 10:52:02 GMT
What if you fixed the first stat to always be Strength? It gives tanks a boost at the expense of caster (It'd cycle through Str/Con/Dex first), and solves all of this. That solves nothing and especially it breaks building. I think the main fuzz comes from the major inconvinience of the need/wish to min/max your character. One thing I personally enjoy alot about building characters. And this, even if originaly designed/planned to behave that way, just puts a ton of extra wasted time on achieving this. Just like DB I plan my builds miticulously and improve them over time fine-tweaking them to my liking. And this requires calculatable results on a build. A change like this just forces one to reincarnate over and over and over until you have what you need. So my mainpoint is: This game, as much as I love it as hardcore gamer, consumes too much time already. Things like this rob me again of alot more time for nothing. In the end I will have the same result on my characters as before, but with days of extra effort in worst case. So just unrandomize the order of the stat point gain, but keep the really random starting point is my suggestion. Reincarnating again and again doesn't fix anything after the change as it is tied to the reincarnation slot and not the current iteration (if I understood correctly). This means you will simply play a suboptimal build until 80 and reincarnate to the actual build at that point, same as we do currently with many builds anyway. Sometimes you will simply have a much better character at 73 than some other player for no good reason.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 1, 2020 17:27:51 GMT
So just unrandomize the order of the stat point gain, but keep the really random starting point is my suggestion. I believe this is how it will be implemented, yes. Funky
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