Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 3, 2020 1:25:35 GMT
This week I received a message from a player, upset about another player using his guild. I also received a message from the player using the guild, complaining that he was entitled to use the guild as a former member.
Between them they cited a number of reasons why each should be entitled to use of the guild, raising the question of who 'owns' a guild. I'm setting out the arguments here, for future reference, and to clarify ownership for those facing such disputes in the future.
To resolve this dispute, I referenced the Guild Rules, found here:
highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/6689/guild-rules
The rules on guild formation are as follows:
2.) Guild Formation
a. Requirements:
i. Group Size: Gather a group of no less then 4 players.
ii. Theme: All guilds must have some sort of theme that must be approved by DM Sorceress. Guidelines for these themes are very loose as HG has never been a heavy roleplay server, but SOME basis for the guild must exist.
iii. Cost: 4 billion gold is required in order to establish a guild. This money is to be turned over to DM FunkySwerve.
iv. Votes: If you have taken the time to form a guild you obviously enjoy Higher Ground, so please ensure that all your members cast a vote for Higher Ground on the Neverwinter Vault, to help us continue to expand our player base.
b. Once you have met these requirements, inform DM FunkySwerve. Once he determines that you have fulfilled all the requirements listed above, construction of your guild headquarters will commence.
c. There are no guidelines in place for internal guild structure or rankings. This is done intentionally, as it is your guild; you decide what is required to qualify for membership. You can require certain items, amounts of gold, immortality, whatever you want. This freedom is subject to the following rules:
i. Each character may only belong to ONE guild. It will be nigh impossible for a character to obtain a guild token for more than one guild. If your character IS able to infiltrate a guild somehow, you are welcome to do so.
ii. Each new member accepted by a guild after formation must vote for Higher Ground on the Neverwinter Vault. We ask that the guilds police this, and we will keep it on an honor system basis.
iii. Each Guild must appoint one or more persons as the head of the guild, for the purposes of Declarations of War (covered under Rule 4 below). The names of these guild heads will be posted on a Guild List sign next to the Guild Notice Board in the Docks. This designation has no other significance within the guild, unless the guild wants it to.
First, I will note that these rules are out of date, as DM Sorceress is no longer active. Either myself, Sabre, or Acaos would have to approve the theme.
Second, Group Size:
Guilds require 4 players. However, nothing in the rules indicates that all 4 may control the guild. To the contrary, 2.c.iii. requires appointment of one or more characters has guild heads. So, simply having a guild token does not mean you are a guild leader, or entitled to a guild rod.
Third, Cost. Guilds require 4 billion gold. No linkage is made to payment of the gold and ownership. So, it doesn't matter who paid for the guild.
Fourth, creation of the guild hall. We do it by default, but players are given the option of creating their own. This also does not have any reference to ownership, and on a number of occasions in the past a non-rod holder has created the area. Further, by submitting the content to us, you waive any claim on it, and any right to veto its use by us. We have neither the time nor inclination to remove areas on demand when someone gets in a snit. So, again, who designed the area does not matter to ownership.
So, what does matter? Holding a guild rod.
What resolved the question in the case that prompted this thread was that one player had persuaded the team to give them a rod by claiming that the guild was defunct, not in use, and that they had a rod previously on a now-deleted character.
Then, a short time later, another player protested the giving of the rod, and demonstrated that they still had a guild rod for the guild in question.
Bottom line: rod ownership is outcome-determinative. If you delete the character with the rod and don't have any other characters with it, you lose ownership of the guild. You CAN get it back by explaining to the Team what happened, but if someone who did not delete their rod takes issue with you getting a rod, you will not get to keep it.
Thanks for reading.
Funky
Between them they cited a number of reasons why each should be entitled to use of the guild, raising the question of who 'owns' a guild. I'm setting out the arguments here, for future reference, and to clarify ownership for those facing such disputes in the future.
To resolve this dispute, I referenced the Guild Rules, found here:
highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/6689/guild-rules
The rules on guild formation are as follows:
2.) Guild Formation
a. Requirements:
i. Group Size: Gather a group of no less then 4 players.
ii. Theme: All guilds must have some sort of theme that must be approved by DM Sorceress. Guidelines for these themes are very loose as HG has never been a heavy roleplay server, but SOME basis for the guild must exist.
iii. Cost: 4 billion gold is required in order to establish a guild. This money is to be turned over to DM FunkySwerve.
iv. Votes: If you have taken the time to form a guild you obviously enjoy Higher Ground, so please ensure that all your members cast a vote for Higher Ground on the Neverwinter Vault, to help us continue to expand our player base.
b. Once you have met these requirements, inform DM FunkySwerve. Once he determines that you have fulfilled all the requirements listed above, construction of your guild headquarters will commence.
c. There are no guidelines in place for internal guild structure or rankings. This is done intentionally, as it is your guild; you decide what is required to qualify for membership. You can require certain items, amounts of gold, immortality, whatever you want. This freedom is subject to the following rules:
i. Each character may only belong to ONE guild. It will be nigh impossible for a character to obtain a guild token for more than one guild. If your character IS able to infiltrate a guild somehow, you are welcome to do so.
ii. Each new member accepted by a guild after formation must vote for Higher Ground on the Neverwinter Vault. We ask that the guilds police this, and we will keep it on an honor system basis.
iii. Each Guild must appoint one or more persons as the head of the guild, for the purposes of Declarations of War (covered under Rule 4 below). The names of these guild heads will be posted on a Guild List sign next to the Guild Notice Board in the Docks. This designation has no other significance within the guild, unless the guild wants it to.
First, I will note that these rules are out of date, as DM Sorceress is no longer active. Either myself, Sabre, or Acaos would have to approve the theme.
Second, Group Size:
Guilds require 4 players. However, nothing in the rules indicates that all 4 may control the guild. To the contrary, 2.c.iii. requires appointment of one or more characters has guild heads. So, simply having a guild token does not mean you are a guild leader, or entitled to a guild rod.
Third, Cost. Guilds require 4 billion gold. No linkage is made to payment of the gold and ownership. So, it doesn't matter who paid for the guild.
Fourth, creation of the guild hall. We do it by default, but players are given the option of creating their own. This also does not have any reference to ownership, and on a number of occasions in the past a non-rod holder has created the area. Further, by submitting the content to us, you waive any claim on it, and any right to veto its use by us. We have neither the time nor inclination to remove areas on demand when someone gets in a snit. So, again, who designed the area does not matter to ownership.
So, what does matter? Holding a guild rod.
What resolved the question in the case that prompted this thread was that one player had persuaded the team to give them a rod by claiming that the guild was defunct, not in use, and that they had a rod previously on a now-deleted character.
Then, a short time later, another player protested the giving of the rod, and demonstrated that they still had a guild rod for the guild in question.
Bottom line: rod ownership is outcome-determinative. If you delete the character with the rod and don't have any other characters with it, you lose ownership of the guild. You CAN get it back by explaining to the Team what happened, but if someone who did not delete their rod takes issue with you getting a rod, you will not get to keep it.
Thanks for reading.
Funky