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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 6:36:55 GMT
Lots of reasons. You may have loot coming that does unique / special things, you may be bumping / adjusting slots, you may have simply wanted to correct acting functionality with intended functionality. As you have stated and what I believe is there was nothing nefarious behind it. Your post earlier in this thread about your intentions was clear and that has always been such. I don't mean hypothetical future reasons. I mean reasons why maybe the edit might conceivably be a good one, right now. Funky At this point I think it’s pretty clear that the reason the edit was made is simply “because it returns the item to functioning in the way it was originally intended to work”. The real question then is: is there a specific reason that the item was originally intended to be worn while resting to be used?Usually this is done to discourage an item being used as a ‘swap-only’ item, but the Brazier is a unique vestige that (practically speaking) *only* functions as a swap-only item. As others have mentioned, the ‘bug fix’ has functionally created a cost of 1) spell slots (if you use an offhand item with slots, or another vestige with slots); and 2) increased effort for non Rogue-CC toons (as the workaround is to tediously swap the item before resting and then swap it back at times other than searching) So, the only game-balance reasons I can see for genuinely wanting the item to need to be worn while resting are: 1) Intending to nerf toons that use off-hand slot gear or a slot vestige (ie: casters), as they now have to make a larger sacrifice to detect secrets with the torch compared to non-casters 2) Intending for a higher effort requirement for non-Rogue CC toons to search for secrets without using a consumable Locate Object potion (I guess this could be perceived as ‘difficulty’?) Or alternatively, neither of the above were intended and it was all just developer oversight
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Post by chirality on Dec 12, 2020 13:04:16 GMT
So, the only game-balance reasons I can see for genuinely wanting the item to need to be worn while resting are: 1) Intending to nerf toons that use off-hand slot gear or a slot vestige (ie: casters), as they now have to make a larger sacrifice to detect secrets with the torch compared to non-casters 2) Intending for a higher effort requirement for non-Rogue CC toons to search for secrets without using a consumable Locate Object potion (I guess this could be perceived as ‘difficulty’?) gonna have to go with the scarce clues provided so far and assume that the answer is hiding behind door #2, since specifically targeting lootcasters seems a bit bizarre perhaps whomever pushed for this change could shed some light on why they deemed it necessary or beneficial for anyone--since, unsurprisingly, it doesn't appear that funky was really fully aware of the context or impact in the first place? would the promoter of this change care to speak up, i wonder (or have they already)? it obviously wasn't funky randomly coming up with this on his own, so...?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 12, 2020 18:04:08 GMT
perhaps whomever pushed for this change could shed some light on why they deemed it necessary or beneficial for anyone--since, unsurprisingly, it doesn't appear that funky was really fully aware of the context or impact in the first place? Funky was and is completely aware. Funky is using the socratic method to force people to use their brains and tamp down on useless whines. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 12, 2020 18:05:56 GMT
Can’t think of a single thing. I can help with that. Why did the edit upset you? Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 12, 2020 18:08:14 GMT
The real question then is: is there a specific reason that the item was originally intended to be worn while resting to be used?No, no reason at all. The dev team just does things arbitrarily. Funky
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 21:00:58 GMT
*shrug* Funky, I'm really not sure why you are still being so mysterious about this when the thread is 4 pages deep and just going in circles now. Then why would so many casters be using it, if not to boost slots? Statements like this are so bizarre that it really does seem like the developers (who don't use the item) and players (who do use the item) are on a completely different page about how the Brazier actually functions in practice. I would be curious to know if there is any member of the Team that has actually used the Brazier in the last 5 years and still thinks that this change is an improvement for the server. This is what I miss least about HG - the fact that the lead developer/primary decision-maker behind the 'vision of the server' doesn't actually play the game, and has lost touch with the player experience (like a chef that has lost their sense of taste, and cooks based solely on theory and memory instead). Good luck to all current players for getting a clear answer on this I don't think it's coming anytime soon.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 12, 2020 21:26:50 GMT
*shrug* Funky, I'm really not sure why you are still being so mysterious about this when the thread is 4 pages deep and just going in circles now. I'm not being mysterious. As I said just above, I'm trying to get players to think for themselves, because I'm both too short on time and patience to waste time arguing about what is blatantly obvious. That wasn't a statement. It was a question. Socratic method, remember? And I'm curious to know why you are so invested in this if you aren't playing. Cut the nonsense, please. I don't play because it's either that or dev, and that's been the case since 2005. It hasn't presented any problems thus far with me figuring out what's happening on the server, as you would clearly see if you were aware of the last two updates. Claiming as if you have any idea what I do or do not know is dishonest and pure trolling. Kind of sad that you don't have better things to do than troll the dev of a game you don't play anymore. I'm currently walking them through it. If they care enough to follow through, they'll figure it out, and hopefully that will help end some of the truly idiotic posts whining about bugfixes. Or not. Either way, they are getting exactly as much of my time as is warranted. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 12, 2020 21:46:00 GMT
Aw man, chir deleted his post. And here I was about to ask if by saying that searching for secrets is 'burdensome', he shares in prep's opinion that it causes 'potentially large bumps to run time'. Funky
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Post by woqued on Dec 12, 2020 22:00:15 GMT
Aw man, chir deleted his post. And here I was about to ask if by saying that searching for secrets is 'burdensome', he shares in prep's opinion that it causes 'potentially large bumps to run time'. Funky I share that opinion and that's why I don't search outside Nessus
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 12, 2020 22:12:22 GMT
Aw man, chir deleted his post. And here I was about to ask if by saying that searching for secrets is 'burdensome', he shares in prep's opinion that it causes 'potentially large bumps to run time'. Funky I share that opinion and that's why I don't search outside Nessus Hey, prep and I both liked your post! Finally we agree on something. Are you also confused by the bugfix, woki, or just putting in your two cents? Funky
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Post by woqued on Dec 12, 2020 22:26:01 GMT
I share that opinion and that's why I don't search outside Nessus Hey, prep and I both liked your post! Finally we agree on something. Are you also confused by the bugfix, woki, or just putting in your two cents? Funky Both, though this was more about 2 cents than confusion I didn't see a need for the fix and don't understand how it even ended on your desk as something to look into or as something that's worth putting time in to fix. I don't consider it a big deal regardless, as someone who isn't too pissy about secrets in general. If the plan was to give CC rogues i.e moliated glint users a perk and kick the copycats in the nuts, the nutkick was succesful but I don't think it increases the value of rogues in the ways that they need. If that was the plan there must've been better ways to go about that one, i.e making them more worthwhile inclusions to a party beyond 10min cd unique active item and xr gloves reliance. If it wasn't about that, I don't know what the plan was beyond someone noticing a bug, it getting fixed, and then players considering things being better with the bug than with the fix.
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Post by woqued on Dec 12, 2020 22:28:52 GMT
I'll add that I think the topic would be better off buried for a while, see how it plays out overtime and then adjust if needed, think things got blown out of proportion here.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 12, 2020 22:44:38 GMT
Sigh, fine. Bottom line is the unfixed loot torch completely obviates a server system, secrets. The bugged version also allowed classes to benefit from both it and spellslot items in that slot. Fixing it also blocks the use of another vestige. None of this is terribly hard to see if you're not focused on the immediate impact on your own play (one of the advantages to me not playing, by the way). If you don't like secrets, or don't think they're worth the time, then the correct answer is not to worry about them - precisely as you do. They are a part of classic PnP D&D. For those who think this is just a 'combat' server, that may not appeal, and that's ok. Also (and I'm speaking to the server at large here) calling things like this 'QoL' is transparent rent-seeking. Look up the definition and ask yourself if something that cuts out 'potentially large bumps to run time' while yielding the same rewards is by any sane definition 'QoL'. Here's the first thread I found, to help you out: "Quality of life refers to small changes in the games design that make it enjoyable for the majority of users. Let’s say that players find the controls very annoying and find it difficult to jump since the control for jumping in the game is space plus d/s." "The term quality-of-life is used to mean tiny changes to a game that barely affect the game's design." www.quora.com/What-does-a-small-quality-of-life-addition-mean-for-a-video-gameNeither obviating the server's secret system, nor massive cuts in run time are in any way 'QoL'. Asserting that they are is at very best motivated reasoning. In the future, in response to 'why'd you fix the broken thing' posts, I'm probably just going to link to the longer post I'm making this weekend. I don't have the patience to spoonfeed answers to players who aren't willing to put any thought into things posting wanting to know why a BUG was fixed, which tends to assume, per other posters above, that we just do stuff without any real idea why. Insulting, and obnoxious. Locked. Funky
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