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Post by simpetar on Feb 14, 2022 13:18:33 GMT
Gloves can be crafted and buffed, like any other weapon. They take gmw / iof too, although it doesn't increase their enhancement, only adds attack bonus. Nope not the ones with different physical damage types as they are either area set or abyssal (get random 6d6 I don't believe gems exist to change these?), whilst you can change the ele/exotic types on the DB ones you are stuck with piercing on these. Its unlikely you will get exactly what you want on the Abyssal gloves however they are rarely near the top of the pick list in these runs so you should be able to obtain a few sets of them to marginally increase the changes of getting something near optimal. DB gloves are piercing, Dis gloves are bludgeoning (no change), Min gloves are slashing. Abyss gloves exist in all 3 variants, although it's always gamble what you get and can't change them later. XR gloves come in all 3 shapes too. Limbo p2 are always suboptimal when it comes to healing. Limbo p1 come only as slashing (as far as I know), but they are arguably the easiest to craft on the fly, and unlike other gloves, these have actual +18 enhancement bonus on them (not only AB).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 16:22:53 GMT
Until you address the core issues of monk, I don’t think this change is worth the effort needed to implement it. Woqued brings up some ways to address some of the glaring holes without making them shine which still lends the argument moot I feel.
We need the existing build types meaningful for monk. Then you can look at adding more / diversifying it.
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Post by woqued on Feb 16, 2022 13:44:11 GMT
We might see Mechanus shift the meta somehow with non-class change related ways:
A) Some awesome gloves - (which is sort of a lame fix: meh until Mechanus, then pigeonholed to an item; the Wrap treatment of old if you may); but something like a specialist brutal murder gloves of some sort that have either a special effect for specific situations or do something wild like... insane physical damage and no ele/exo at all. Dunno if that's even implementable though B) Monk kit being particularly attractive for some reason: if the very specific [concealment + sr + stunning + mind immunity + ~~138-144 ac] as a whole is really attractive for some reason and enemy DR's aren't completely off the wazoo with high KB; Monks might play an important role already as is C) They introduce a new mechanic/mob defense type that tanks a specific amount of hits instead of a flat amount of dmg like Demigorgon on a super high spell resistance monster that has spell immunities to clouds D) Wild update out the wazoo with class balance fixes coming in from every door and window as Mechanus comes out; long shot if we're being honest, if it ever comes out
That's a pretty slim category to fit though. I'd prefer if Monks were easier to access; HG punishes most of what monks do well pretty hard. The high KB makes monks less noob friendly than they should be imho, and spawning too much stuff is easily punishing for newer players. Monk KD that was strong in vanilla is rather subpar on HG; requires either excessive amounts of feats / key mobs are immune / requires higher AB than monks can access to land reliably access.
...
To go to bales original point: frame wisdom fists as "cool thing to have, why isn't it?" and hope for "oh, easy fix. done" or "screw that, lol".
... And hope there isn't some funky weird wis caster/shifter/ranger fist build out there hiding in the woodwork with monk splash making it completely off the rocks with wis based fisting to get monk attack progression with a wis based guy. If all monk weapons got that treatment I guarantee a non-monk build that would make use of it would happen at some point.
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Post by yune on Feb 16, 2022 17:27:21 GMT
Intuitive Attack already works with kama, goad, nunchucks, quarterstaff and shuriken. AKA all monk weapons other than fists.
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Post by chirality on Feb 16, 2022 17:32:48 GMT
the problem of 3/4 BAB class that has a pure build route which sacrifices 1 APR in exchange for a special reward which isn't good enough hasn't been resolved with satisfaction
rogue, wrap, blah blah
it's worse for monk though. tangentially, fist assassins are arguably the most broken, and stupid, possible build (which is supposed to exist as an option, with stuff designed for it) in the entire game because of the keen gloves thing (considering qstaff monk is probably the second most broken and stupid build in that category, it's no coincidence: monks are hard to balance)
fist monk should be separated from pure carrot, and monk should be rewarded more for going pure without resorting to the wrap approach, but it seems like new set gear (eg limbo, dexterous defiance0 only reinforced the old paradigm of special gear serving to unlock or buff builds, which is something i always disliked and would love to see HG move away from, but that's not a popular opinion
power creep largely rendered "tanks" obsolete and all non-caster/non-utility builds are graded by DPS, which means the defensive aspect of monks is no longer valuable unless the offense matches or outperforms that of other classes while maintaining similar defense
this makes BBoD monks irrelevant and makes tanky monks irrelevant
limbo initially raised the defensive bar in some regards but any gains made in that area were more than drowned out by the even more important need for high DPS to counteract extreme slog
mechanus could swing back around but unless monk becomes useful again as a bbod or as a tank that can do cool stuff/damage while never dying, monk will remain quantified by whether or not it can compete with similarly-survivable builds that dish out damage
tldr, better wait 3 days to make any judgments
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Post by KnightErrant on Feb 16, 2022 19:28:30 GMT
Intuitive Attack already works with kama, goad, nunchucks, quarterstaff and shuriken. AKA all monk weapons other than fists. I'm going to guess and say it's a coding issue on fists, likely was too many zots involved to implement when it dropped. Even if it came up at a staff meeting and we thought it was ok it would still be way way down on the to do list, at least four days ;-) (The known bug adding damage to the gloves hasn't even been fixed after all this time...) KE.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2022 22:53:37 GMT
Is that bug a driver here ya think?
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Post by chirality on Feb 17, 2022 2:53:52 GMT
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Post by woqued on Feb 17, 2022 10:25:52 GMT
Intuitive Attack already works with kama, goad, nunchucks, quarterstaff and shuriken. AKA all monk weapons other than fists. I didn't remember this, so I went to look back at builds again because I knew I'd looked at the build archetype before and deemed there was some problem. Turns out it wasn't intuitive attack. What I'd forgotten is that the most notable potential wis abuser stuff had been blocked by other mechanics; i.e rangers don't get their ac when using these weapons and caster tanks being locked out of their mechanics if they don't have zuper high [stat] and the stat spread becomes too impractical. Welp. Seeing that would cause the initial response to be "very likely to be some engine problem"; unless there was some weird thought behind thinking stunning fist is too op on wisbased fister or something. Possible, but raises some eyebrows.
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