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Post by jelricle on Jun 1, 2022 22:42:36 GMT
Anybody else wish that the pandect of darkest secrets: Summoning worked for their class? My shifter would _love_ a pet. He gets lonely! :_(
At the least (and more seriously) has anybody ever considered enhancing it to give shifters the elemental form feat? (The druid gets Dragon shape, after all, but that would probably be asking for too much. ;-) )
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Post by chirality on Jun 2, 2022 2:43:22 GMT
Regarding the first question: it seems that the summoning pandect is intended for use by spellcasters only. I'm not sure if this is balance, implementation issue, or both. In any case, it appears to have been designed for spellcasting classes and therefore I don't see any chance of it being changed to work for the other classes that aren't "mentioned on the list" (per the description). However, this would be the point in a conversation to bring up a recurring discussion over the years: some sort of henchmen/mercenary type functionality. At one time or another, there have been various suggestions, from casters in town (or perhaps hubs) that can offer weapon/party buffs, to hirable monster and/or NPCs. From what I remember, these ideas were never completely ruled out, but I think it's unlikely for them to materialize at this point, either. Nonetheless, you could try sparking a discussion or necro-ing an old thread to pursue the idea of getting your shifter a pet. (Although, honestly, I believe it's been mentioned before, but you're probably better off just waiting until GoG does a NWN:EE sale, paying 5 bucks for a second copy of the game, and building another account to tag along with your shifter) On the note of pandects and non-spellcasting classes: keep in mind that many of the pandects are aimed at giving a bonus to tanks in particular (even if some shine more than others, especially for certain builds/classes). The tanks that can use the summon pandect almost never choose to, because the pet is simply not as valuable as another option (to most players, most of the time--you could be an exception). It has certainly been done, of course, but even after the now-ancient "summon update" which redesigned the summon system, the epic summon feat provided by the pandect is not very impressive. I could see it possibly being a solid choice for you (as an Explorer archetype soloist playing a non-caster/non-UMD class) but again, the concept was apparently intended to only function for spellcasters. As for the second question: Yes, simpetar suggested such an idea several months ago. edit: I misread. I see you're asking about the summon pandect giving shifters the elemental feat, similar to it giving druids the dragon shape. I don't think anyone has ever proposed that before.
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Post by yune on Jun 2, 2022 3:12:23 GMT
There is an item that gives anyone a henchman/pet. It's the black blade rod. And the pet is even invincible.
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Post by KnightErrant on Jun 2, 2022 12:11:04 GMT
Think I mentioned before Shifters are already considered OP by the staff, many many classes need help/upgrades before even thinking of bumping Shifters power.
Henchmen were approved iirc but I believe we were still a bit apart on their power and I think whoever was working on the project ie donating their free time hasn't logged on in ages.
KE.
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Post by Yojimbo on Jun 2, 2022 14:11:07 GMT
I have been out of the game for a while but last I recall elemental forms are worthless and I had at one point suggested a Pariah style QC for Druid/Barb that focused on Elemental forms. The idea went no where but for me the idea was to give elemental forms a purpose through a fun class mix idea to me. I think the only shifter/shifting druid power that needs any attention is elemental shapes right now unless those forms are finally useful and I am just out of the loop because years of absence.
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Post by jelricle on Jun 2, 2022 15:36:38 GMT
Think I mentioned before Shifters are already considered OP by the staff, many many classes need help/upgrades before even thinking of bumping Shifters power. Yeah, I know. I'm just greedy. ;-) (and woefully incompetent! :-D ) I throw out these thoughts, based on my newby play style to see how other more experienced folk feel.
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Post by jelricle on Jun 2, 2022 15:41:36 GMT
. . . However, this would be the point in a conversation to bring up a recurring discussion over the years: some sort of henchmen/mercenary type functionality. At one time or another, there have been various suggestions, from casters in town (or perhaps hubs) that can offer weapon/party buffs, to hirable monster and/or NPCs. From what I remember, these ideas were never completely ruled out, but I think it's unlikely for them to materialize at this point, either. Nonetheless, you could try sparking a discussion or necro-ing an old thread to pursue the idea of getting your shifter a pet. . . . (Although, honestly, I believe it's been mentioned before, but you're probably better off just waiting until GoG does a NWN:EE sale, paying 5 bucks for a second copy of the game, and building another account to tag along with your shifter) . . . Heh, in the whistling willow, I threw out the suggestion of making Elrin available as a henchman (first come, first server on the . . . server, or perhaps he just hooks you up with somebody you can call) if you finish all his quests! (you would need to bring him the final item, each time, or some such) Wait a sec . . . I thought HG was not compatible with NWN:EE! Has that been changed?! Or is it just Steam's NWN:EE that does not work? Regardless, I have been using my old Diamond edition. Oof, I am a bit obsessive compulsive. HG takes up so much of my brain space that I need some sort of speed bump to keep me in the real world. I have been using "Don't buy another CD-Key" as that speed bump! :-D
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Post by jelricle on Jun 2, 2022 15:47:40 GMT
I have been out of the game for a while but last I recall elemental forms are worthless and I had at one point suggested a Pariah style QC for Druid/Barb that focused on Elemental forms. The idea went no where but for me the idea was to give elemental forms a purpose through a fun class mix idea to me. I think the only shifter/shifting druid power that needs any attention is elemental shapes right now unless those forms are finally useful and I am just out of the loop because years of absence. Yeah. I had thought of elemental shape as just being a nice flavor add-on. Maybe if they were given essence points and PL/Wis based DC, then the whirlwind and drown abilities would be handy. (Maybe Earth elemental form could get "Earthquake" and fire elemental form could get combust?) Come on, haven't you ever wanted to go to the Earth elemental plane and beat the stuffing out of an Prime Earth elemental as an ancient air elemental? :-)
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Post by chirality on Jun 2, 2022 18:36:57 GMT
Wait a sec . . . I thought HG was not compatible with NWN:EE! Has that been changed?! Or is it just Steam's NWN:EE that does not work? No, on both counts. What I meant was that the best way to get NWN Diamond these days is by purchasing GoG's version of NWN:EE, which comes with a free Diamond copy. Steam's NWN:EE version does not. It seems that around the time NWN:EE was released, suddenly NWN Diamond became nearly impossible to find as a new standalone digital item as it was in the past. Calling it collusion might be a bit conspiratorial, but regardless of why and how it happened, there are very limited options for buying Diamond--such as buying an overpriced hardcopy--and none of them make as much sense economically as buying the GoG EE game and getting the free Diamond along with it.
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Post by Yojimbo on Jun 2, 2022 19:46:23 GMT
I already own NWN from Disc and from GoG is I pick up the EE would I get effectively a 3rd copy/set of keys for it?
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Post by chirality on Jun 2, 2022 22:12:01 GMT
Yeah, just make a new GoG account if you've already bought it on your main one, and then you can use the keys from the purchase of the second account to dualbox with (no extra installation required--you can just set up a batch file to automate the nwn account info/port swapping; there's instructions in a few places around here, and people can help guide you through it if needed. You can use 2 separate installations on the same machine, or two separate machines too, of course).
With a new GoG account, you might need to email their support if you run into issues with a new account being prevented from making purchases until a minimum amount has been spent--it's a protective feature I noticed in the past.
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Post by jelricle on Jun 3, 2022 4:14:23 GMT
I think I need to just stick to my single account, for my own sanity (and tough luck on Pyramid and Penumbra) I might start a rogue, some day, though . . . or just reincarnate and sacrifice 3 points of save (luck of the heroes --> Silver palm) and 2 Undead or Outsider DC (Paragon Undead/Outsider --> LSA Search) to get max search.
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Post by simpetar on Jun 3, 2022 6:32:27 GMT
I think I need to just stick to my single account, for my own sanity (and tough luck on Pyramid and Penumbra) I might start a rogue, some day, though . . . or just reincarnate and sacrifice 3 points of save (luck of the heroes --> Silver palm) and 2 Undead or Outsider DC (Paragon Undead/Outsider --> LSA Search) to get max search. You don't need Silver Palm for a shifter to be able to search. Stargazer or female Drow Noble have enough intelligence to max Search with Able Learner cross-class and 1 ranger level. You need to sacrifice a bit, but not lvl 1 and LSA feat.
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Post by jelricle on Jun 4, 2022 1:36:25 GMT
I think I need to just stick to my single account, for my own sanity (and tough luck on Pyramid and Penumbra) I might start a rogue, some day, though . . . or just reincarnate and sacrifice 3 points of save (luck of the heroes --> Silver palm) and 2 Undead or Outsider DC (Paragon Undead/Outsider --> LSA Search) to get max search. You don't need Silver Palm for a shifter to be able to search. Stargazer or female Drow Noble have enough intelligence to max Search with Able Learner cross-class and 1 ranger level. You need to sacrifice a bit, but not lvl 1 and LSA feat. Okay. I am still a newb, but let's see what I can figure out. Corrections welcome (and appreciated!) One Ranger splash level: - Opens up Exotic weapons, if I sacrifice . . . Great fortitude, perhaps? (I don't think I will, but nice to have the option) - Gains simple weapons, which gives crossbow, mace and Morningstar. That is good. - Opens up Martial if I choose some race other than Anarch. - reduces CL for spell like abilities by one, which essentially boils down to a single die of damage, round of effect or skill/ability point change. I think I could live with that. - Splash at 20 would save 20 points from discipline (and 20 points from search if I don't do LSA Search feat) - Splash at 40 would save 40 points from discipline and 20 from parry . . . but I would have to sacrifice a Shifter level, which would impact non-spell abilities Elf derived base class, instead of human: - Opens up 40+ points in crossclass skills with able learner, but at 3 points per skill - Lose a starting feat, and 80 skill points. That puts me in the red, even with a ranger splash at lvl 40. - Lose 80 hit points from Constitution drop. So . . . I still think I am better off giving up two DC of undead, construct or outsider, by giving up a paragon form focus for LSA Search, along with giving up Luck of Heroes for silver palm . . . Right?
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Post by simpetar on Jun 4, 2022 18:31:43 GMT
One Ranger splash level: - Opens up Exotic weapons, if I sacrifice . . . Great fortitude, perhaps? (I don't think I will, but nice to have the option) - Gains simple weapons, which gives crossbow, mace and Morningstar. That is good. - Opens up Martial if I choose some race other than Anarch. Weapon proficiencies are irrelevant. Caster shifters should use the UR staff with a nice aug and/or green. Tank shifters can use anything, and only ever take unarmed foci. Damage types transfer, no matter if from bastard sword or dagger. You probably can, it's a fairly standard thing. Splash 1 ranger at 40, take LSA Tumble, max Search with Able Learner, put leftovers into Parry after you are done with essentials (including Discipline, courtesy of the splash). You can skip Parry altogether, Constructs and Undead are immune to crits by default. That's where Stargazer, Drow Noble, eventually Lolth-Touched int bonus comes to play. Heck, you can even pull searching shifter off with Sidhe. Technically 60 HP, because splashing ranger in epic levels gives you a free epic feat and Epic Toughness is the only remotely useable option. At any rate, 80 or 60 difference is inconsequential. Outsider doesn't deserve anything past LFFO1, unless you are going for Leonal tank. Not one Outsider form has any meaningful DC based ability that warrants going past LFFO1. The whole point of elf + ranger splash package on shifter is to enable searching (without compromising the rest of the build). LL feats for (caster) shifter are EXTREMELY precious. You have 7 of them: LSA tumble, 3x Wild Shape focus, 3x focus of your choice, read an epode for your second form of choice. PL feats have little more wiggle room / variability, but Legendary Luck or even LSA Search are luxury and waste of top tier feats.
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