Once again, 1,000 thanks to Avatar

[Grogbot]

Once again, 1,000 thanks to Avatar for dealing with yet another annoying git.

And for those of you not there:

Repeated blatant bottom-wipe of a PKer sent to hell and beyond ...

Grog

PS do we need PvP at all?

[Xcercs]

pvp would be a fun aspect of the game and afterall why have guilds if none of them will war

if you run immortal only wars then no 1 can complaine as there is no loss of items or gold or experiance...

what i was thinking was at the crossroads why not have a area tranmission to a LARGE map with a few tree's maybe a pond and have that as a free for all killing place thus granting the pvp players a place to wonder and kill any pssers by ... a warning placed beforee the transmission will warn any would be adventurer of the danger ahead and those that dont read it will soon find they should read things more often ^^

[Lord FlashHeart]

Very difficult to implement proper PvP on HG due to the AB/AC discrepencies, funks tried to solve this with the guild ac droppers but then again not everyone is in a guild and you'll find that pkers are usually the types of people who aren't guild affiliated. There's also the fact that casters would have a field day with the other classes especially with the new epic spells and summons. Oh, and you would need to disable timestop for proper PvP as Sorcs and Wizzies are all but invulnerable with the TS castx4 rinse and repeat method.

Imagine a lev 60 str based WM going against a lev 60 cleric with the epic summon and all those epic buffs, maxed destruction, searing light and implosions. It'd be a turkey shoot.

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

As a wizard, I tend to disagree...

Yes, Time Stop is a HUGE bonus - but most offensive spells are reflex save based, and thus totally useless against most PCs thanks to amateur monk syndrome.

Death magic is right out, since any PC with any gear at all is immune.

Grabby hands are great to keep fighters off of me, unless they are wearing the bigby immune gauntlets.

Wilting and finger of death work well for the damage component - unless they a) have heals and b) drink neg pots.

And Epic Spells rock - but there are two limitations. Neither Starfire nor Missle Barrage do enough damage to individually kill any PC other than wiz/sorc or maybe bard...and when you do combine them it is true you'll get the kill - but then you have to rest. In a group fight, or a protracted fight...you don't have that option.

So...really, wiz/sorc aren't that horribly overpowered. Gear and equipment, as well as stats and hp readily available to an immortal level character make melee classes almost immune to casters - after the first one dies from my epics, that is.

As to cleric...well, epic summon is absurd, but spell mantles can really ruin a cleric's day. Plus, there's no such thing as maxed destruction. Or even empowered destruction. Maxed - well, 7+3 = 10, and there's no 10th level spells. Empowered - well, the damage component is secondary and so empowered spell doesn't work for Destruction.

Searing light...no matter how you slice it, is level 3 (or 2, as a sun cleric). Wearing a barbarian wrap makes you completely immune to its effects.

At high levels...it is all about the gear and stats, not so much the class...though I would argue that meleers have the distinct advantage because they never run out of arm strength to swing at you, and their AB doesn't deplete itself. They can swing at you from now till the end of time.

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

xcercs said:

if you run immortal only wars then no 1 can complaine as there is no loss of items or gold or experiance...

That is unfortunately not true. Pick Pocket takes items, and there's no one easier to PP than a corpse. And if you log off to prevent it, you log back in dead and mortal and then risk fuguing if you can't get a res...

[Lord FlashHeart]

Oh dear Del, fancy a game of pillars?

PLayed that once with funky and the boys with my sorc and pked the entire opposing party about 3 times. The prob is they all gather togther in the same space to rez and when they do....Timestop. Cast Maxi Ice storm 4 times. Timsetop. Cast ice storm 4 times. Timestop. Cast ice storm 4 times. rinse and repeat until all are dead. It takes a bit of skill and practice to get the next timestop off at about the same time as the last one ends but its not that difficult. You can be sitting there hacking the heal quickslot but it takes about a second for the drink animation to complete and by that time the next TS has gone off. If you check out the PvP servers (obviously very briefly only for research purposes and as long as you come straight back to HG you'll find that most of the popular ones have disabled or at least modified it so that TS spamming isnt possible.

Next time i'm on we can meet up in the arena and i'll introduce you to the wonders of the timestop spam (although I havent done it in a while so my timing might be off lol)

Your right about the destruction tho, can you tell i dont play clerics?

[FunkySwerve]

I'll probably nerf the ole timestop a bit after I finish up some other projects in the works. The old spamguard was removed because it was sticking.
Funky

[Grogbot]

Hi all

When i wrote:

grogbot said:

PS do we need PvP at all?

I didn't mean "should we have more PvP? "

I meant "what is the point of having Party PvP permittable in nearly all areas when its use 99% of the time is by some complete turd whose idea of fun is ruining everyone else's idea of fun?"

I meant to stimulate debate on let's turn off PvP everywhere and make it impossible - except the arena or some designated areas.

Thoughts on this proposal?

Grog

[Xcercs]

dam u grog always making a sure to be flame session nice and organised

i agree most of the pvp that happens is a turd that thinks his lvl 9 fighter max str can slap a 16 sorc (lol stoneskin and dmg sheilds taught that guy a lesson) but i must say i am driving the bandwagon on the road to lets have more pvp i think its great to test ur skill against the hardest opponent EVER that can never be out thought since people do things different to a script

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

funkyswerve said:

I'll probably nerf the ole timestop a bit after I finish up some other projects in the works. The old spamguard was removed because it was sticking.
Funky

I'd really prefer that you didn't...I don't think we have large scale PVP/PK problems out there, and TS is *really* useful to let me save my own hide, or get a moment to go res people.

Cutting out the spamming is one thing, because eternal timestops that take advantage of the engine is jut cheap...but nerfing TS because of PVP uses when it is there is relatively little pvp/pk action will likely have a greater effect messing up the PC vs NPC uses of the spell.

I think it's already balanced vs NPCs, since there are so many places you can't use it to keep down on boss-paralysis.

Please leave it as is?

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

flashheart2 said:

Oh dear Del, fancy a game of pillars?

PLayed that once with funky and the boys with my sorc and pked the entire opposing party about 3 times. The prob is they all gather togther in the same space to rez and when they do....Timestop. Cast Maxi Ice storm 4 times. Timsetop. Cast ice storm 4 times. Timestop. Cast ice storm 4 times. rinse and repeat until all are dead.
Your right about the destruction tho, can you tell i dont play clerics?

Again, thats a good strategy...probably an effective one...but it still has three flaws.

1) Gear. Proper preparation can make Ice Storm useless. Dachy ice ring and good bludgeoning resistance would make that a different fight.

2) Spells are limited - you run out, and yes you will keep winning as long as you have spells and they're careless...but when you run out, you're dead.

3) Ice storm, no matter how you slice it, is level 4. Items or spells that confer immunity to level 4 spells make your strategy useless. Granted, its tougher for *fighters* to get that...but there you go.

Still, TS spamming is just wrong. An easy win in the short term though. More often than not, I use it defensively though. It has even better uses there...

[FunkySwerve]

delfestra said:

Cutting out the spamming is one thing, because eternal timestops that take advantage of the engine is jut cheap...but nerfing TS because of PVP uses when it is there is relatively little pvp/pk action will likely have a greater effect messing up the PC vs NPC uses of the spell.

Its not one thing, its the only thing. What did you think I meant by nerfing, other than stopping spamming? Same as GS, though possibly with a shorter duration.
Funky

[FunkySwerve]

delfestra said:

Again, thats a good strategy...probably an effective one...but it still has three flaws.

1) Gear. Proper preparation can make Ice Storm useless. Dachy ice ring and good bludgeoning resistance would make that a different fight.

2) Spells are limited - you run out, and yes you will keep winning as long as you have spells and they're careless...but when you run out, you're dead.

3) Ice storm, no matter how you slice it, is level 4. Items or spells that confer immunity to level 4 spells make your strategy useless. Granted, its tougher for *fighters* to get that...but there you go.

Still, TS spamming is just wrong. An easy win in the short term though. More often than not, I use it defensively though. It has even better uses there...

You really need to play Pillars a bit before arguing with someone who has about the dominance of mages in there. You have a fighter wearing one of two pieces of equipment, just to stop a single spell, partially (don't forget the physical). And when you run out of spells, you arent dead, you're in town, resting. Actual play has shown Lord to be correct. And i don't even think a mage has managed to procure a set of GREATER Boots of Springing and Leaping - that'd be a true slaughterfest.

Funky

[Lord FlashHeart]

delfestra said:

And i don't even think a mage has managed to procure a set of GREATER Boots of Springing and Leaping - that'd be a true slaughterfest.

Funky

Lol funks my reward for that very game was the greater boots, i have a pair sitting in my sorcs backpack as we speak

Muwhahahahahahahaha.

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

funkyswerve said:

delfestra said:

Cutting out the spamming is one thing, because eternal timestops that take advantage of the engine is jut cheap...but nerfing TS because of PVP uses when it is there is relatively little pvp/pk action will likely have a greater effect messing up the PC vs NPC uses of the spell.

Its not one thing, its the only thing. What did you think I meant by nerfing, other than stopping spamming? Same as GS, though possibly with a shorter duration.
Funky

I did not know what else you could mean, because I have a small understanding of scripting. Anything's possible for the DM, as far as I know.

But I am glad to hear what your intentions and focus are for the spell. Thank you for explaining =)

(And I apologize for kneejerk emotionalism on my part. Did I mention that you and your team have made the best server I've ever played on and it is now the only one I play on?)