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Post by bort on Jul 6, 2006 12:43:18 GMT
Hey everyone.. As this is my first message on here since i starting on higher ground about 5 months ago, i've got to say, these servers are the most enjoyable waste of my time ever They're awesome.. Fantastic work guys, thanks alot.. Some cool people on here too.. Really friendly.. Keeps it fun. Here's the bug: When i levelled to 42 LL I chose concentration, legendary spell penetration and wisdom stat increase. (I'm a pure cleric caster) I got the first two, but not wisdom. I know this because i had written down my max boosted-with-items wisdom when i was level 41 (wisdom was 46) and it still is 46 max boosted-with-items at level 42. I checked my choices before confirming them, so i can't of increased my str or anything like that instead.. One thing i thought of is that my items weren't all stripped.. i.e. my wisdom boosting rings and ammy.. would that have something to do with it? My char name is Averon and my player name is ToDefyTheLawsOfTradition Anything you guys can do would be very much appreciated. Diesel / Avatar of shadows suggested i post here and Funky might be able to do something.. Thanks very much for your time, keep up the great work on the servers, they rock!
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 6, 2006 12:49:16 GMT
I'm looking into it. Letoscript does have rare hiccups, so it's possible, if unlikely. Three or four months ago the Altar swapped genders on someone... Oh, and the altar only strips feat and skill adding gear, not ability boosters. What server were you on? Funky
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Post by bort on Jul 6, 2006 13:05:26 GMT
i'd hazard a guess at server 111, but i couldn't be sure. sorry. if ever i have any more bugs, i'll make sure to write everything down.. Thanks Funky. p.s. I was talking to dm "Whisper" (not sure of playername) about it last night when it happened. They might remember which server it was.. or they might not.. p.p.s Last night UK time.. probably 2 or 3 am..
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Post by archmage on Jul 6, 2006 19:39:00 GMT
Whisper is me, and I told funky which server you were on already. Hopefully we can figure out what happened here.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 6, 2006 19:40:33 GMT
That's the server he spoke to you on, what I'm wondering is what server he used the altar and logged off for edits from was, because there's no record of him taking a LL on 111. In any case, can you remember your starting stat at first level? May have to do a count up to verify you got the point. The odds of your getting the concentration but not the wisdom are vanishingly small, much less than your having made a mistake as to what you were and wre wearing, etc. Funky
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Post by bort on Jul 6, 2006 22:38:55 GMT
hey hey...
I think I must've gone to 111 after being booted during the LL to 42 process.. So i must've hit 42 on one of the other servers. Sorry for mix up. ..I went to altar on 111 after realising my wisdom was the same as it had been at 41, assuming that the leveling process had failed..... I thought the server had bugged and i was still level 41. I spoke to Whisper from there.
Regarding the concentration point I asked for at 42, don't know for sure i got it, but i wasn't too worried.. as wisdom is more important to my char.. But now i know that it would help prove that the levelling proccess bugged on me, i wish i knew.. Sorry for misleading you on that..
my starting wisdom was 18 (max on first level for cleric caster) and i got "great wisdom VI" in feats before LLs.. I took wisdom at every stat increase opportunity (all 10 pre LL)
Which makes 18+6+10 = 34 (without item or magical boosts, 46 with) which is what i have.. Not the 35 i should have including my LL wisdom stat increase..
In regards to equipment.. My equipment gives me a 19 wisdom boost, which is obviously above the +12 cap.. so it's not a case of a change of equipment giving me less wisdom or anything like that..
Really appreciate your time guys, know this must be a pain in the ass. I'll make sure to keep a note of all my stats and skils and feats before levelling in future.. Thanks again..
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Post by bort on Jul 6, 2006 22:42:43 GMT
dont think i mentioned,, my race is gnome..
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Post by bort on Jul 6, 2006 23:16:55 GMT
Hey guys, Think i've spotted what happened.. Before i go on, i swear i did check my choices and it did say concentration, legendary spell pentration and wisdom.. I don't rush levelling. ever.
So.. I tried recreating my char starting stats according to how my stats progressed.. So race: gnome..
maxed wis of 18 str of 6 (bad i know) 10 dex (not sure why now, lol) 8 int 8 char and here's the odd one out - 18 const is what i started at - my char currently has 19 constitution without item or magical boosts.. But i never increased the stat after starting it at 18.
Is it possible a bug caused the wrong stat to increase? Like i said above, i really checked carefully before agreeing to level to 42.. and i did choose wis not const..
I'm 90% sure that's the bug.. Unless you guys have any other ideas? Again, thanks very much guys..
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 7, 2006 0:23:10 GMT
Possible yes, in the sense that ANYTHING is possible, but user error is way way WAY more likely. Funky
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Post by bort on Jul 7, 2006 0:54:59 GMT
hmm. sounds like you don't believe me. not suprising i guess. for future reference, what would it take to prove that i'm telling the truth? i hate to be a pain in the ass, was just hoping it could be resolved.. no biggie. thanks for the help..
i'd like to avoid it happening again though. that would get annoying fast.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 7, 2006 3:39:49 GMT
I believe that's what you think happened, I just doubt in the extreme that that's actually what happened. The odds of leto throwing an error are very low, and the odds of it just happening to error by editing the wrong stat in the right amount are much much lower, especially if it got the rest of the edit right. You'd be a lot more convincing if you could've told me about the constitution immediately, and been certain that you had or hadn't received the concentration. The fact that you couldn't also strongly favors user error. The reasons that we post the warning saying dms can't undo screwups are threefold: 1) to increase user caution and thereby reduce complaints 2) because it defeats the purpose of automating the process 3) we simply don't have time to constantly redo LL screwups
So you can see why fixing them is problematic, I hope, and it'd be unfair to grant exceptions arbitrarily. Doing it as a rule would also be exploitable, allowing people to claim they made the mistake in LLs even though they made it much earlier and are now forcing oodles of extra work on the dm team to correct their mistake.
On the other hand, we try to accomadate players, trust them where possible, and be respectful of their time, so, I WILL consider point swapping, if: 1) The player provides a full accounting of stat changes from starting stats through race/subrace changes and including levelup and feat gains. You've mostly done that, already, but I need you to fill in the gaps, number by number, so I can backtrack and verify correct total points. 2) The player reports the problem immediately, indicating they were exercising due care on their end. DMs cannot be burdened with extra work due to increasing player sloppiness as a result of this policy. You did that, so we're fine there. 3) The player understands that we will verify stat gains in previous levels and refuse to make the edit if the error was not on the level in question. This stops the 'rethinking my build' exploit. Shouldn't be an issue here.
So, we now have a non-arbitrary policy for checking LL mistakes and correcting them, that won't unduly burden dms with player sloppiness. Provide the stat breakdown and I'll fix it, if indeed the mistake was made in LLs.
Funky
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Post by bort on Jul 7, 2006 8:31:35 GMT
Yeah, i can see that you don't want every player asking for their stat points moved around because they had changed their mind on a build.. that would be a nightmare..
What information exactly do you need regarding stat increases? I know that I deliberately ONLY put stat points into wisdom after choosing my starting stats as the plan was for a super cleric caster from the start.. I wanted this build to be great, so I asked everyone i partied with for a couple of months what makes a good cleric before starting the build :)
I haven't got a list of progressions of feats (ie. what feats i took at what level) but I can list my feats if that would help?
Also, I've just realised the starting stats i posted above are wrong.. I was getting them partially from memory and partially from seeing how many points i could pump into wis at start, but i now realise the starting stats i posted aren't possible.. (although when i posted them that's what i thought i had taken.) I just tried to recreate the characters starting stats again to be doubly sure, and I must've taken Strength:6, Dexterity:9, Constitution:19, Intelligence:8, Wisdom:18, Charisma:8.. Because with my starting stats I was maxing Wisdom then Constitution and i plopped the spare stat point into dex (must have put it in dex, because my charisma and intelligence are 8 and my strength is 6) So the stat point increase at 42 must've gone into DEX not CONST, to make up my dex total of 10.
Sorry about that.. Really wish i'd noted down my levelling progressions now.. Will do in future. I can see my case would be much stronger if i could give you a build chart of what i did and when.. and i wouldn't feel like such an idiot :(
Thanks for your time Funky.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 7, 2006 8:37:55 GMT
It's not possible to take more than 18 to start. Please note starting stats and racial and/or subracial edits seperately. Ditto the number and type of any stat altering feats you've taken. If you've taken wisdom every level. plot that out, make sure it adds up to what you currently have. You have to do the footwork here. Funky
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Post by ekstroem on Jul 7, 2006 9:02:40 GMT
Hey Bort
For what it is worth I think there could be a problem with the altar for LLs. I have a lvl 60 cleric and around lvl 57-58 I started wondering why my DC on implosions weren't higher. With great wis 10 and all stat increases (+20) I should have a base wisdom at lvl 60 of 18+30=48 but it is only 42. Instead my strength has been increased to 22. I didn't bother report it since 1) I was going to play another toon anyway and 2) I thought it would be difficult to prove I didn't mess up on the LL leveling.
I do have a few exports of the toon since lvl 1 so I can see something is strange. However, I've kept a close eye on every ability increase at the altar since then and I have to say I've have never seen any anomalies (but I haven't increased wisdom with any of my toons there).
Cheers,
Claus
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Post by bort on Jul 7, 2006 9:05:34 GMT
Ok; Thanks Funky -
Averon's race is Gnome - Gnomes get +2 Constitution (also -2 Strength), which enables me to get 19 constitution (or 20 if i'd wanted) at starting stats. Gnomes also get +2 concentration from the feat "Skill Affinity Concentration".
Here's how the starting stats looking in character creation: Strength: 6(-2) Dexterity: 9(-1) Constitution: 19(+4) Wisdom: 18(+4) Intelligence: 8(-1) Charisma: 8(-1)
At every stat increase opportunity I took wisdom, (there are 10 stat increase opportunities pre LL, correct?)
So; Wisdom 18 + 10 = 28.
I took Great Wisdom VI.. so 28 + 6 = 34.. Which matches what i have at the moment.
My other feats are listed below for reference, with stars (*) by race given feats.. Obviously for the epic spell focuses i took spell focus and greater spell focus for them (excluding conjuration - I had a book which gave me the epic focus for it)
* Armor proficiency heavy * Armor proficiency light * Armor proficiency medium * Battle Training vs. Giants * Battle Training vs. Goblins * Battle Training vs. Reptilians Combat Casting Earth Domain Powers Empower Spell Epic Character Epic Cleric Epic Spell Focus (Conjuration) Epic Spell Focus (Divination) Epic Spell Focus (Evocation) Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy) Epic Spell Penetration Great Wisdom VI Greater Spell Penetration * Hardiness vs. Illusions * Low-light vision Plant Domain Powers * Sheild Proficiency * Skill Affinity (Concentration) * Skill Affinity (Listen) * Small Stature * Spell Focus (Illusion) Turn Undead * Weapon Proficiency (simple)
Is that enough information Funky? Despite my best efforts I'm still a bit of a n00b sometimes. :/
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