less scrolls for sale

[Notlaw]

Just a thought and im going to get flamed big time for this, but removing a lot of scrolls so they cant be bought!

This would allow spellcasters to shine more than they do, as they would be able to scribe scrolls, sell for a premium etc. The xp cost isnt that horrific for scribing, gold could be an issue, if its really scarce.

All in all though it could be a good change. and it would stop people running around mass healing and buffing, etc just because they took one rogue level and max umd or one spell caster level ?

[Blood]

This is a decent suggestion, providing the new HG is not based in a moderate to magic intensive world

If it is based on one of the above, then scrolls would still be common, or readily available. However, if the use of scrolls is the only issue, then just up the UMD requirement for scrolls, or lvl requirement for those who have a lvl or 2 in an arcane casting class etc.

[Notlaw]

Alternatively dont make scrolls for sale infinite supply and put a refresh script in to reset the merchants inv, dont make the refresh to quick.

Voila, scroll problem as I see it mostly fixed. There are still ways round it, but its arduous and time consuming!

[Korbasil]

Question:

Can you set it up so that only players with a certain number of levels in a class can enter buildings or purchase items? "You are not welcome in this shop - come back once you have passed the Master Mage trails" (need 10 levels of Mage to enter).

That way you could control the use of scrolls/items with having the requirement of a base number of levels in mage, etc. to purchase scrolls/items or enter a Mage shop - as opposed to one level of rogue for UMD or one level of sorc to use scrolls.

[Mesron]

I kind of agree with limiting scrolls actually.. I think lower level scrolls can stay commonly available but make higher level scrolls hard to obtain. And possibly make a Wizards guild in the game where only pure wizards and sorcerers can buy the more powerful scrolls. This would cut down on UMD exploiters, because they would have to find such scrolls or depend on a generous wizard to make them or resell them.

And incidentally someone made an interesting point to me online the other night regarding rez packs.. do you think maybe rez packs are too readily avalable?

[Argon]

I totally agree with Korbasil's idea of needing a certain number of levels in a class to do certain things. (If it can be done or not, or how hard it is to do, is an entirely other matter!) For example, equipment that's not just class dependant (Ftr, etc) and level dependant (lvl 18 total, etc), but class level dependant (must be at least lvl 10 ftr to use, etc.) Not for all equipment or areas, but a few things here and there would be cool... to prevent people from taking just 1 level in a class and yet wear a class-specific uber-item.

Regarding UMD, I don't agree with making too many things too high... otherwise what's the use of UMD? I have every confidence the admin team will balance things well.

Regarding scrolls, I agree with limiting them too. I always thought it was bogus having a Ftr 6 Wiz 1 (who just happens to also have a high-lev to give him lots of cash) running around with 20 Black Blade scrolls, and so on. (Or mass heals at Rhaz's, etc.)

I like having scrolls in the game, would be neat if you actually had to adventure to find them, or have a spellcaster make them. :-)

[FunkySwerve]

Just to update this thread, we DID make scrolls much rarer. Also, it is possible to circumvent umd on certain items, we are doing that with the new set items (for obvious reasons, if you played alot in the previous incarnation of HG). We can require a certain class, or classes, and require certain levels of those classes to use an item.

Funky

[3man]

As far as I agree with the idea to remove most of the spells from shops there is a problem with wizards which need scrolls to learn new spells. I don't know if it's a real problem but I encountered wizards complaining about lack of basic spells like flame, gmw, darkness etc. I know that a lot of spells can be found at the Tower lvl.3 but to get there as a low lvl wizard is difficult.

Maybe a good idea would be a mage in town which would sell scrolls only to wizards (with a limitation to one scroll). The sage could do this job or another NPC at his house.
Or maybe the Red Wizards of Thay could estabilish one of their enclaves there?

[FunkySwerve]

Wizards get spells on levelup, at the rate of 2 per level gained, so I don't think this is a big problem. The problem with having scrolls sold in any form is that they will make their way into the hands of umd'ers, and part of the goal we're trying to accomplish with the update is making magic more for casters. We could set up a store that would only sell each scroll once to each player, but that would entail alot of work for little gain. If it DOES appear that spell availability is a problem, especially for people new to the server, obviously the gain from such a store would be increased, perhaps to the point of making such a project worthwhile.

Funky

[Argon]

I always thought one of the "fun" parts of being a wizard was searching/questing for spells to add to your spellbook. If you're a good power-hungry wizard (like all mad wizards are supposed to be!) and want more spells, you can adventure to find those scrolls and increase your spellbook. You can trade spells with other wizards (hey, i'll make you a scroll of burning hands if you'll make me a scroll of sleep). It's more work than just waltzing into a store and buying a full spellbook, but that's half the fun (aka challenge). I'm glad to hear spells are going to become more potent. I'm also glad we now have to work a little more to earn the ability to cast 'em. :-)

[FunkySwerve]

Aye, I wish wizzies didn't autolearn on levelup, that way I could hide the boosted spells' scrolls in devious places.

Funky

[Mesron]

Argon said:

I always thought one of the "fun" parts of being a wizard was searching/questing for spells to add to your spellbook. If you're a good power-hungry wizard (like all mad wizards are supposed to be!) and want more spells, you can adventure to find those scrolls and increase your spellbook. You can trade spells with other wizards (hey, i'll make you a scroll of burning hands if you'll make me a scroll of sleep). It's more work than just waltzing into a store and buying a full spellbook, but that's half the fun (aka challenge). I'm glad to hear spells are going to become more potent. I'm also glad we now have to work a little more to earn the ability to cast 'em. :-)

Thats about ALL I do when I play Wizard characters, is greedily obsess over scrolls, wands, and magic items! A true role-played Wizard will always turn down a chest full of expensive loot to get his hands on scrolls and other magic relics which would increase his power!

I think one approach to cutting down on the UMD exploiting is to NOT offer any GS scrolls in the shops definately.. And other powerful scrolls that higher level Wizards and Sorcerers can make themselves. If players want them that bad they'll have to find a wizard who is willing to make them for money. In addition to more powerfule (or higher level) magic devices could be tagged for use by Wizards and Sorcerers only. That would work to some extent, except it might be unfair to people who play rogues.
And of course the other drawback is some people would still take at least one level of mage to use those items. I guess the best approach overall is to make the higher-level scrolls a rare commodity.

[MeanMC]

Korbasil said:

Question:

Can you set it up so that only players with a certain number of levels in a class can enter buildings or purchase items? "You are not welcome in this shop - come back once you have passed the Master Mage trails" (need 10 levels of Mage to enter).

That way you could control the use of scrolls/items with having the requirement of a base number of levels in mage, etc. to purchase scrolls/items or enter a Mage shop - as opposed to one level of rogue for UMD or one level of sorc to use scrolls.

lol yea but still if it happends like tht wut is stoping ppl from getting a lvl 40 caster buying scrolls and xfering them to them low lvl.. i think they should just put a lvl Req. on "the scrolls" and yea dont make a infinate amout respawn and only sell scrolls like lvl 1-5 and keep the rest for u to find..