Dragonblooded

[cathedralmaster]

Any chance dragonblooded could be improved? For a UR subrace, it seems pretty weak:

"Dragonblooded" (secret UltraRare subrace) - requires Half-Elf
STR +2, CON +2, WIS -2, INT +2, CHA +2, +5 lore

Baseborn Titan is pretty bad too:

"Baseborn Titan" (secret UltraRare subrace) - requires Human
STR +2, WIS +2, INT -2, CHA +2, +10 heal, free feat: Extra Smiting

As these don't seem to be in the same league as the others like Planewalker or Fallen Angel, and are even outclassed by some of the secret subraces, I was wondering if they could be examined and perhaps enhanced. For instance, some type of substantial elemental immunity or resitances could help make dragonblooded a far more attractive choice.

[chainlink]

The thing that would make Dragon Blooded rock would be to enable 3 caster/7 WM/50 RDD as a build option. At the minute the only real benefit of this race (and I'm not sure whether its a benefit or not?) is to be able to make a max'ed AA (29 pre-LL) with fire immunity and some stat boosts although you'll have to miss out on self conceal which is a pretty big sacrifice where AAs are concerned.

[doomsdaybringer]

yea 7wm with 30 rdd would be somthing..... would happen if Dragon blood is given one of the feat needed for wm, or just allow base race for Dragon blooded to be human.

[maudlin27]

Or improve the stat bonuses on them. Maybe make dragonblooded a more 'all-round' stat race, with +2 to Str, Con, Dex, Int, Char, and no penalty to wis. Baseborn Titan could maybe have +2 Str +3 Wis +3 Char -2 Int.

[Yomi]

Assuming that one wanted to make enhancements, let me look at Baseborn Titan, since I'll agree I'm not seeing much benefit. Just some ideas, and don't misunderstand that I think all these ought to be done -- it's Baseborn Titan, not Munchkin King. The DM team is also pretty darn good at balancing these things, so they may have something in mind that isn't jumping out at me.

1. Increase stats. Smiting paladins always need more str, so bumping up str and/or cha would help them (e.g. +3 to each). Or other stats to make it more attractive. Just a little more and it starts looking interesting for baneknights too. Not too much more though -- probably shouldn't be the default str tank or sorc race.

2. Add feats. One option is to add one or more pally type feats, or even something that'd help baneknight or pally; examples weapon focus warhammer, divine might, toughness, power attack, etc.

3. Add special abilities. A Titan -- he gets 10% damage immunity to all three physical. Or DR (great if it stacked, but it doesn't), or even (oh my) some exotic immunity or resist to make it really unique (e.g. 25% divine immunity). As a Titan, he is one with the land and strides with great speed -- movement speed increase when not underwater, for instance. Or plain old striding to at least make this even comparable with Fallen Angel.

4. Subrace specific gear. Add one or more nifty items that are only wearable by this race, with or without class requirements, and it would be more attractive. These would be either UR or found in the Hells. For example: Titans Maul -- warhammer with L35ish damage but 1d40 divine onhit (ala AA bow). Titan's Mail: +18 fullplate, 25% physical immunity, DR 20/- physical.


As for Dragonblooded, one strike against it is that as a half-elf you're losing one feat vs. human but not getting the stat changes of Elf either. But at least you're getting +2 to 4 stats and -2 to one, which is a pretty good deal (better than Titan). Just give it some prismatic HD style immunities, and this would be a kicking deal and you'd see more around (on the other hand, without an appearance change, maybe they're all over the place already...).

[cathedralmaster]

sti15 said:

But at least you're getting +2 to 4 stats and -2 to one, which is a pretty good deal (better than Titan). Just give it some prismatic HD style immunities, and this would be a kicking deal and you'd see more around (on the other hand, without an appearance change, maybe they're all over the place already...).

And I recommend better than 5% as guess what already has 5%:

"Planewalker" (secret UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement
STR -2, DEX +2, CON +2, INT +2, 5% immune to acid, cold, electrical, fire, and sonic, breathes water, able to walk on quicksand, speaks Abyssal, speaks Celestial, speaks Infernal

[jillybean]

sti15 said:

As for Dragonblooded, one strike against it is that as a half-elf you're losing one feat vs. human but not getting the stat changes of Elf either. But at least you're getting +2 to 4 stats and -2 to one, which is a pretty good deal (better than Titan). Just give it some prismatic HD style immunities, and this would be a kicking deal and you'd see more around (on the other hand, without an appearance change, maybe they're all over the place already...).

I agree Dragonblooded needs to be improved too. I always thought it should get some free feats that would be beneficial to a RDD build. Maybe 2 of the Epic Toughness Feats? Would give you back the 1 feat you lose from not being human, then an extra since it is a UR and should be worth the search.

[starlandra]

now I like that suggestion... *seconds motion*

[Yomi]

Planewalker's interesting, in that it has 5% to all 5 non-exotic element types with no negative like the various HD's do. 75% ring + 5% from PW + DR/20 from lots of available items = 0 or trivial kickback in most areas. Surprisingly useful. The prismatic has the 25% to 4 types but 25% vulnerability to sonic, so it's a win or a loss depending on area.

So 5% to all 5 would be a lot, or something like the Prismatic HD with 25% bonus to 4 and 25% vulnerability to one. More than 5% to all 5 would be really big.

I also like Jilly's suggestion of the epic toughness feats. It'd be a real nice bonus for non-splash RDD's.

[Besiege]

The best benefit for dragonblooded would be ability to take 3 bard/7 wm/30 RDD. I give voice for some WM feat, like dodge or so.

[Dannecrot]

Another interesting option would be to allow somehow 2bard/10RDD/28WM which is also currently imposible...

It just hits me as strange that Dragonblooded would be based on half-elf when human is obviously more beneficial to it. (also no obvious reason why it should be H-E) Which sort of leads me to believe this was done intentionally...

[chainlink]

Having got my Stinger RDD/WM/Bard to a half decent level I think I'm going to leave this thread alone as it will upset me if Dragon Blooded gets tweaked now even though I currently have two books (it doesn't rain but it pours!).