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Post by cathedralmaster on May 17, 2007 21:55:44 GMT
It would make the damage shield spells overpowered (in the case of elemental shield, way overpowered). 50% immunity to fire and cold with no downside and the ability to use it to damage other creatures only when you want it to? On a level 4 spell?
Edited: Minor changes.
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Post by nohmask on May 17, 2007 23:29:44 GMT
Well, while I am taking a break from loading animals on my ark, I did stop to think about a recent time when I got close enough to a robot for it to hit me and the party got a little singed....soliciting more than a few "wth" and similar...surprised....remarks as well as suggestions because everyone of course has limitless advice on playing a wizard but oddly enough never seems to be actually playing one themselves....and though I typically would never get close enough to anything that caused KB, party or otherwise, it does give me pause and wonder if I should just cover these areas better with gear (somehow...) and not keep those shields up all the time.....50/50 cold/fire and approx. 30 acid...hmm....well that is a lot...for party kickback in the Hells Im seeing Robots, Winds, Fierna?, Cold Robots....I must be missing some party kickback monsters? Dont get me wrong, the more easy to use and powerfull you can make magic the better in my opinion....aha...here's a solution...have the shields change depending on caster level the way some other spells change when reaching a certain level ! That would make the only other time (the clouds in the pyramid) I can think of apply as well....how about 55 and up when you cast the spell it doesn't do damage but still gives immunity? Then you would drop death armor too from the auto caster...well I guess I should do that anyway really....ok, that's my suggestion then with those shields, the other ones are out of my limited field of expertise....Noh.
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 18, 2007 3:16:37 GMT
I am quite aware that spawns are random these days.
As to waiting - you can always mords yourself. No wizzy has only 1 or 2 sets of buffs around anyways.
Before I started rebuilding, I'd completed Maladomini with my wizzy self and was ready to hit Cania next. I'd managed to cope with kickback from hamatulas just fine.
I still agree with Archmage and Cathedralmaster. Being able to shut off the downside to your spells...is just too much. It turns damage shields into immunity buffs. The spell wasn't intended to do just one thing. And it makes things too easy IMO.
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Post by dodrudon on May 18, 2007 10:38:39 GMT
everyone of course has limitless advice on playing a wizard but oddly enough never seems to be actually playing one themselves.... LOL
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Post by lala on May 18, 2007 12:11:39 GMT
I am quite aware that spawns are random these days. As to waiting - you can always mords yourself. No wizzy has only 1 or 2 sets of buffs around anyways. Before I started rebuilding, I'd completed Maladomini with my wizzy self and was ready to hit Cania next. I'd managed to cope with kickback from hamatulas just fine. I still agree with Archmage and Cathedralmaster. Being able to shut off the downside to your spells...is just too much. It turns damage shields into immunity buffs. The spell wasn't intended to do just one thing. And it makes things too easy IMO. Sweet, So you guys dont mind if I run around with elemental shield on all the time on my Staffmaster? Some sort of compromise is needed, because trust me I will try this one day when in party with you all ;D The point is Delf, all of the shields have now been tweaked to provide some sort of immunities..... If thats not their purpose why bother doing that? Especially if you cannot use them in Hells that often. Edit:Just thought about this, I cannot see how it is overpowered for mages or the other classes using different shields. You are still taking serious amount of damage even without kickback, furthermore once your dead you are then without that immunity. In conclusion you are still going to take a kicking from spawns down there.
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Post by khaine on May 18, 2007 15:11:05 GMT
but... why would you do such a thing?? xD. It is a downside, and its not fun to walk around db with dmg shield when not everyone can cover the immunities, xD, xD.
xD.
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 19, 2007 5:50:31 GMT
lala: Actually, thats not so. Death armor grants no immunities. Fire shield ALWAYS gave 50% vs cold and fire, even in the normal mod as far as I know. Its only Acid Sheath that has an extra benefit spellwise.
And yes, Divine Shield has an immunity added. But originally, ALL these spells/effects were damage shields originally. They do damage when hit. Thats their point.
And...a Staffmaster or Bane Knight that just mindlessly casts all their buffs out of their autocaster each fight...is about as silly as a meleer putting darkfire/flame weapon/deafening clang/poison weapon on each of their weapons and just hitting things.
You adjust your tactics to the area and monsters you face. Some adjustments are easier than others. And some mistakes are more painful than others. I'm not bothered by this. I think it adds more to the server than it detracts.
Edit: As a side note, really, I don't even USE an autocaster. I like to control my buffs better than that. Which means, you'll never see me in Hell wiping the domination off of party pets because Mind Blank "was just in my autocaster".
I can't count the number of times thats happened. Bottom line? Too much easy convenience = sloppy play.
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Post by lala on May 20, 2007 20:30:29 GMT
Delf your right as it stands, however the common sense is that Elemental Shield CANNOT be used in Hells if a front line meleer. Same to a certain extent of pali/bg, but I guess they may be able to if others tank. Even now you are backtracking about when to use these shields, saying its bad to use them all the time ;D So please tell me when a front line member should use them in hells
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Post by lala on May 20, 2007 20:57:12 GMT
Just to add. If everyone thinks this is so overpowered. Then this pushes the argument for SM to get special Mord/Breach boots. Still that doesnt help those using Divine shields as a front line char that may have to tank
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Post by dodrudon on May 21, 2007 2:33:30 GMT
If the front line tank has enough AC to avoid being hit most of the time, then they'd have much of the benefits of Elemental Shield with little of the detriments.
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Post by lala on May 21, 2007 11:51:35 GMT
If the front line tank has enough AC to avoid being hit most of the time, then they'd have much of the benefits of Elemental Shield with little of the detriments. I am a bit stunned by this, you do know most SM and those using divine shields do not have AC of 140+ ? Some will mention conceal but I can safely say even 85% gets ripped through quite often, I can live with that as it is managable. OK. Another suggestion, would be nice if others helped with solution instead of just being negative Next Suggestion: Can the immunity on elem shield be lowered to 25%. That way there should be no issue in using the !kboff and !kbon commands for the types of shields including Divine Shield?
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Post by dodrudon on May 21, 2007 15:42:07 GMT
Why is that stunning? I'm saying in the hypothetical case in which tanks have enough AC to use it safely. HG isn't built for stupid people.
There would be a HUGE uproar if Elemental Shield were ever nerfed to 25%. It's like a free ring slot, but it doesn't come without a price. Its usefulness is tempered by its risk. There's a reason that, apart from Shunt, only Endure Elements has elemental immunities and no kickback on it.
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Post by lala on May 21, 2007 17:01:39 GMT
Why is that stunning? I'm saying in the hypothetical case in which tanks have enough AC to use it safely. HG isn't built for stupid people. There would be a HUGE uproar if Elemental Shield were ever nerfed to 25%. It's like a free ring slot, but it doesn't come without a price. Its usefulness is tempered by its risk. There's a reason that, apart from Shunt, only Endure Elements has elemental immunities and no kickback on it. Its stunning dude because you cannot get enough AC to not be hit if you are able to cast elemental shield, and only a rare few divine shield builds hit close to the 140ac mark. We are talking about using these abilities in Hells. Even 142 AC gets hit often. I am wondering, have you ever tried to use elemental shield and/or divine shield consistently in lower hells? There is no risk because it cannot be used (would mean awful time for party on kb if was), or if do for about 10-20% max. Does anyone else think 25% immunity is way tooooo powerful if kb can be disabled considering how is a front tank meant to us divine shields and elem shield in Hells?
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Post by archmage on May 21, 2007 17:51:41 GMT
Ele shield can and is used constantly in the lower areas, by both Aessa and myself when I play my sorc.
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Post by lala on May 21, 2007 18:18:11 GMT
Ele shield can and is used constantly in the lower areas, by both Aessa and myself when I play my sorc. Yeah I can see the current setup works fine if considering the casters and as it stands it keeps them on their toes. The challenge I am thinking of though is the use of say elem shield and also the divines when one is a front line char and does have to tank at times. Maybe the spell can be made to behave differently depending upon how many levels of a caster you have. So if under 20 caster lvls the KB can be disabled on the shield. The KB disable I feel should be an option for divine shield so paladins and BG can really benefit from the exotic immunity. Would be nice though if something could be done with elemental shield; say make it 25% immunity and KB can be disabled IF less than 20 or 21 caster lvls. Lala
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