What areas should DM's focus on?

[javamonkey]

Wvyrren said:

Best thing I have found to do with them is just keep a looted weapon handy to fight with or run.

Keeping a spare weapon handy is a good idea not just for the rusty but all the time. You never know when u may get disarmed. I find the best way to deal with a rust monster is a range weapon,rust monsters dont have a lot of hp and most of the time you can kill them before they get a chance to attack

[ForsakenRites]

besides there is a save vs rustingv i think its Constitution

[KyleShayfur]

Better weapons for rogues. When fighting higher lvl ceratures it seems like I can never hit. (Could be I cant build a decent character but I will never own up to that). I would like to help in killing creatures so better weapons for rogues would be great.

[Mesron]

Rip said:

Bard items in short supply?

Bards have UMD, which allows them to use any item at all. I don't think there is a shortage, at all.

But only bards can use instruments..

[Argon]

Other thing that bards need better epic equipment for is to boost their +perform skill. I agree that with access to UMD they have access to lots of "regular" equipment, but that doesn't help perform. For a 40th lvl bard to take advantage of his bard song, he'd need a 145 Perform skill, & only way to reach that is with some serious help from equipment.

That being said, the biggest problem I have with just tacking +40 perform onto an item is it lets a low lvl bard not have to spend skill points on perform.... once they're high enough lev in another class, they can still use a high-lev bard equ, even if they're a low-lev bard. Too bad there isn't something that lets level-restrictions count for actual levels of a class... that'd have interesting possibilities....

Also, I don't know if NWN supports "equipment set" bonuses, a la Diablo II. You know, you have to have all 4 pieces of a set of bard equipment worn in order to get the +60 perform bonus or something. I've never seen it, so I'm guessing not.

Anyway, keep up the good work everyone, this place is already the best, and it's just getting better!

[Rastan]

well, the highest preform possible would be a bit short of the 145 at only 126 maximum because of a +50 limit on skill increasement

And yes, NWN does support Set items. However the have to be put into the module from them to work

[FormerAdmin]

Aye, set items would be a very nice addition to our world.

I know there are a few "sets" currently in game, but they are not expelling any bonuses.

The DM team will have to look into that one.

[Dworkin]

aye, i used to whine about sets not working when i first joined.

Anyway i would like to see more of the accessories put in. it would be fun to have The fans and umbrellas unchanted and given to some monsters. I would laugh my head off if the drow house head whiped out an umbrela and beat me to death with it.

Mainly though it think somw nice warfans (enchanted fans) would be nice.

Once you hit level forty you should have access to something more than a better bastard sword. =-)

hmm what else.... Give the madman a flag with evil Crown =evil or something similar on it. i don't suppose a gnomeflinger is to much to ask for =-)

[Rastan]

Set equipment isnt something done by default. Insted a script is triggered when the full "Set" is worn.

Also, in case sets are put into effect in the future, Please note that you'll have to rest to trigger the bonuses; otherwise the Script will run on a heatbeat causing major lag.

[Dworkin]

Some people might be offended by this so as a preface I would like to say this is all IMO and is in no way an attack on any specific individual. Simply some observations and responses to those observations.

Plus I’m probably going to get yelled at for this. Meh, oh well I can take it.

[Dworkin]

Alrighty then this is the beginning of a semi long and semi ranty post.
When I took a break from the server over the summer I was worried about the possible future of the site. I had already seen several things that were making me very uncomfortable. When I returned to the server I noticed that I was right. My worst fears were confirmed. The Higher ground server has shifted from a rather entertaining mixture of quests and puzzles with guardians and monsters that while difficult enhanced rather than distracted from the quest aspect of the mod. The mod has shifted into a completely physical damage focus. Gone are the days when tactics and special abilities could win the day. Now it has become nothing more than who has the biggest sword and the most immunity. To begin I am going to break down the classes into three tiers.

Tier 1 is composed of heavy hitter classes. The tanks as it were. This tier is composed of the Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger, Arcane Archer, Blackguard, Dwarven Defender, Weapon Master, and the Champion of Torm.
Tier one focus on melee combat with a couple of ranged attackers. What separates this from the other two tiers is its noticeable lack of Casters. The Paladin, Ranger, Blackguard, and Arcane Archer all gain a few spells (mainly buffs) but do not rely on those due to an excellent Base Attack Bonus. If one where to be a complete B.A.B. Monkey the Maximum Achievable B.A.B. by level forty is 54/49/44/39. The base achievable B.A.B. is 30/25/20/15 from levels To that if you spend nearly every feat AND start out with 20 (racial bonus +18) in your main attack stat (dex or str) you can gain a Maximum of 40 in your main stat giving you a +15 pumping the b.a.b. up to 45/40/35/30. You can also take three feats that will raise your attack bonus by +4 with a specific weapon. Further raising the attack bonus to 49/44/39/34. In addition the Bonus to weapons also may be added. Assuming a weapon with heavy enchantments one can safely pick +5 as a general bonus Raising the B.A.B. to a grand total of +54/+49/+44/+39.
This is the absolute max B.A.B. players may achieve without munchkiny items. Why do I call them munchkiny? If you raise your base attack bonus with an item specifically designed for said purpose you effectively are taking your opponents ac and subtracting whatever that item gives you.

Now I’m sure most of you will agree with me when I state that the mobs on the mod have their babs artificially enhanced to well beyond what a normal player can achieve. I have seen +71 BASE attack bonuses on some monsters. I can understand this for things like the mother of all dragons and Eternal dragons and “boss” characters. But often times I have run into creatures who are supposed to be one level but have attack bonus well above said level.

Tier 2 is light infantry and support. This Tier is composed of Clerics, Druids, Rogues, Bards, Monks, Assassins, Shadow Dancers, Shifters, Dragon Disciples, and Harper Scouts.

Two of these are Full caster classes, Clerics and Druids. Of the two Clerics have the advantage when it comes to spells. Druids on the other hand have animal empathy and can stop wildlife in its tracks. They also have elemental form and an animal companion. The Cleric and druid are about equal. Except the Cleric has divine might, a wide range of weapons and armor, and better single attack spells. The druid has better area effect spells so it about evens out.

The Bard is a 2/3 caster and a skill monkey. The bard can cast up to 6th level spell, has no arcane failure in light armor, access to almost every skill (except Animal Emp, Disable trap, Open Lock, Search, Set Trap, Spot, and Intimidate). A Decent Fighter with access to some self healing with the bardic music ability.

For this tier the Maximum BaB is five less than a tier one. (This gap is actually less until level 19 when they finally reach maximum spread for all tiers) So this class can max out at +49/+44/+39/+34. EXCEPT this tier is composed of classes whose main stats are NOT dexterity or Strength. Of these classes the main Stat breaks down so that the only classes whose main stats are dexterity or strength are, Rogue, Assassin, Shadowdancer, and Dragon disciple. I leave monk of because while they can boost their main stats they almost must boost wisdom due to their armor restrictions. Shifters are unique in that they can shift into various forms that alter their B.A.B. Drow Warrior boost them to tier one while things like Mind flayer can drop them. So assume that you can drop and ADDITIONAL 5 because they will cap out at 30 in their main stat while boosting other stats necessary to them. Not that this costs them a lot of feats they might otherwise take. So it’s more realistic to say that the Tier 2’s will be around +44/+39/+34. Ok then Moving on.

The final Tier is composed of Artillery and an oddball. You have the Wizard, The Sorcerer, and the Pale Master. The wizard and sorcerer are extremely unlikely to start out with a 20 in their attack stats more likely sacrificing str and dex for intelligence and Charisma. Though they may have up to a 16 in dex lets work off that assumption. Assuming that they waste three feats to get the +4 B.A.B. that leaves them with +32/+27….
That’s fully 22 less than the max tier 1 as well as two less attacks AND wasted three feats. Pale master is decidedly odd. It gets a +2 Armor bonus as every four levels. If taken to level 30 you gain a total of +16 to Natural Armor. Hmm you also gain immunities to critical, holds, paralyzation, darkvision, stun, +3pt per level (total of 75@30), and an undead servant. At level 30 the undead turns into a demilich that’s pretty neat. Every other level its gains spell slots as if he had gone up a level but not any more spells. That makes him a horrible cast. In addition as the pale master grows in level the caster level stays at the wizard level. So you cast spells as a 10th level wizard/sorc/bard. Hmmm.

As you can see its very very clear that if a server insists on going strictly on physical damage 13/24 classes are going to lose out badly. If you insist on making everything immune to everything then several classes become almost completely unworkable. Rogues without sneak attacks are poor fighters. Shadowdancers who can’t hide suck, Assassins who can’t hit their target or hide suck…. You get the idea.

It gets really REALLY aggravating when undead are immune to healing, nearly everything is immune to mind affecting AND bab’s and ac’s are artificially inflated.

Most Monsters have now reached the point where they are pretty much immune to spells now as well. Harm has been nerfed and magic immunities and super high sr makes it impossible for caster classes to even use their abilities. And while chatting with some characters who are also dm’s I hear that the few non physical abilities that still remain are on the axe list my anger really starts to peak. ANYONE who thinks that just because class’s special abilities allow them to kill a creature in a manner not directly due to sword should not be allowed to make decisions. Now for examples I’m going to post a chart detailing b.a.b. progression assuming a 20 in main attack stat and doing nothing but spending feats to increase it to gain the max possible ac for any of the three tiers.

HitDie___Tier 1___Tier 2___Tier 3___Bonus
1_______6_______5_______5_______5
2_______8_______7_______7_______6
3_______9_______8_______7_______6
4_______10_______9_______8_______6
5_______11_______9_______8_______6
6_______12_______10_______9_______6
7_______13_______11_______9_______6
8_______15_______13_______11_______7
9_______16_______13_______11_______7
10_______22_______19_______17_______12
11_______23_______20_______17_______12
12_______24_______21_______18_______12
13_______25_______21_______18_______12
14_______26_______22_______19_______12
15_______27_______23_______19_______12
16_______29_______25_______21_______13
17_______30_______25_______21_______13
18_______31_______26_______22_______13
19_______32_______27_______22_______13
20_______33_______28_______23_______13
21_______34_______29_______24_______14
22_______35_______30_______25_______14
23_______35_______30_______25_______14
24_______37_______32_______27_______15
25_______38_______33_______28_______15
26_______38_______33_______28_______15
27_______39_______34_______29_______16
28_______41_______36_______31_______17
29_______41_______36_______31_______17
30_______42_______37_______32_______17
31_______43_______38_______33_______17
32_______44_______39_______34_______18
33_______45_______40_______35_______19
34_______46_______41_______36_______19
35_______46_______41_______36_______19
36_______48_______43_______38_______20
37_______49_______44_______39_______20
38_______49_______44_______39_______20
39_______52_______47_______42_______22
40_______54_______49_______44_______24

This is the Attack Progression table showing the max B.A.B.

[Dworkin]

HitDie__Ability Inc._Feat Inc__Feat B.A.B._Tier 1 5%_Tier 2 5%_Tier3 5%
1_______0_______0_______0_______26_______25_______25
2_______0_______0_______1_______28_______27_______27
3_______0_______0_______0_______29_______28_______27
4_______1_______0_______0_______30_______29_______28
5_______0_______0_______0_______31_______29_______28
6_______0_______0_______0_______32_______30_______29
7_______0_______0_______0_______33_______31_______29
8_______1_______0_______0_______35_______33_______31
9_______0_______0_______0_______36_______33_______31
10_______0_______0_______5_______42_______39_______37
11_______0_______0_______0_______43_______40_______37
12_______1_______0_______0_______44_______41_______38
13_______0_______0_______0_______45_______41_______38
14_______0_______0_______0_______46_______42_______39
15_______0_______0_______0_______47_______43_______39
16_______1_______0_______0_______49_______45_______41
17_______0_______0_______0_______50_______45_______41
18_______0_______0_______0_______51_______46_______42
19_______0_______0_______0_______52_______47_______42
20_______1_______0_______0_______53_______48_______43
21_______0_______1_______0_______54_______49_______44
22_______0_______0_______0_______55_______50_______45
23_______0_______0_______0_______55_______50_______45
24_______1_______2_______0_______57_______52_______47
25_______0_______0_______0_______58_______53_______48
26_______0_______0_______0_______58_______53_______48
27_______0_______1_______0_______59_______54_______49
28_______1_______1_______0_______61_______56_______51
29_______0_______0_______0_______61_______56_______51
30_______0_______1_______0_______62_______57_______52
31_______0_______0_______0_______63_______58_______53
32_______1_______1_______0_______64_______59_______54
33_______0_______1_______0_______65_______60_______55
34_______0_______0_______0_______66_______61_______56
35_______0_______0_______0_______66_______61_______56
36_______1_______2_______0_______68_______63_______58
37_______0_______0_______0_______69_______64_______59
38_______0_______0_______0_______69_______64_______59
39_______0_______0_______2_______72_______67_______62
40_______1_______0_______1_______74_______69_______64

Now this table shows when the bonus’s to B.A.B. are achieved and the last three columns are the ac at which the chance to hit is 5% or in other words a natural twenty is needed to hit. This is important because many monsters appear to have ac’s equal to or above the ac limit forcing large numbers of people to party in hopes on increasing the number of criticals. Now it would seem more sensible to have a 20% chance of hitting something = to your level. That would put the chart at…<br>HitDie___Tier1 20%___Tier2 20%___Tier3 20%
1_______23_______22_______22
2_______25_______24_______24
3_______26_______25_______24
4_______27_______26_______25
5_______28_______26_______25
6_______29_______27_______26
7_______30_______28_______26
8_______32_______30_______28
9_______33_______30_______28
10_______39_______36_______34
11_______40_______37_______34
12_______41_______38_______35
13_______42_______38_______35
14_______43_______39_______36
15_______44_______40_______36
16_______46_______42_______38
17_______47_______42_______38
18_______48_______43_______39
19_______49_______44_______39
20_______50_______45_______40
21_______51_______46_______41
22_______52_______47_______42
23_______52_______47_______42
24_______54_______49_______44
25_______55_______50_______45
26_______55_______50_______45
27_______56_______51_______46
28_______58_______53_______48
29_______58_______53_______48
30_______59_______54_______49
31_______60_______55_______50
32_______61_______56_______51
33_______62_______57_______52
34_______63_______58_______53
35_______63_______58_______53
36_______65_______60_______55
37_______66_______61_______56
38_______66_______61_______56
39_______69_______64_______59
40_______71_______66_______61

The problem is that it appears that the designers are thinking harder instead of smarter. Of course I understand that it’s easier to slap on levels and add construct levels and undead levels to a creature to make it nearly immune to everything. And then make it armor and weapons so that it can hit anything and is immune to most damage from any source, and it sees everything. Is immune to knockdown disarm and everything else. In fact let’s just make it so that the creatures are immortal and you win if you survive without dying for a set amount of time.

And another thing Disarm I always thought that disarming someone meant that you knocked someone’s weapon from their hand. NOT back into their sheath that disappears when they die. Disarming is for getting other peoples weapons. I’m NOT going to waste a feat chain like that. The same now goes for parry, knockdown, stunning, in fact all feat chains not directly related to damage are now useless. Overwhelming critical is also useless on the important things as well. A rogue with 20d6 sneak attack damage is only doing a d4 with his dagger because it’s all immune….

I would like to see some thinking reappear on the server with quests and puzzles, failing that I would at least like to be able to use special abilities I spent 40 levels working on work and things like disarm actually working as well. Otherwise what’s the point? I might as well make a fighter level 40 and brag about my +5 B.A.B. +50damage great sword. And laugh at wizards and the like who die at the hands of monsters that they can’t hit, Damage, or affect in any way except by perhaps giving them indigestion.
I joined because this wasn’t a hack and slash.

[Dworkin]

So to sum up a focus should be on making the game more fun for those who aren't Focused on Damage alone and allow people to use thier class abilities. The original mod had parts where you needed the other classes to succede us poor tier 2s and 3s are now just hangers on with nothing really to do any more

[Slayer]

As a builder, it would be easy for me to argue that "but wait we have this planned" and "oh, wait, you're right this is coming up". How I forsee the module is only in my head and on paper currently, and how you see the module is right before you. It saddens me that you are disappointed with the state that the module is in. However, I am also encouraged by the many many ppl who are happy with the state that the module is currently in. You are witnessing a work in progress, and to belittle it now is to emphasize your own lack of patience, and not our lack of judgement. You have all the opportunity in the world, here in this forum, to post your requests and concerns about the server. EVERY ONE is taken seriously, includng your own. I will not respond in full, as it is unfair and will reveal what is yet to come for Higher Ground. I only ask that you be patient as we continue to develop this module and that you listen to the posts that are about to come, from the people who are indeed satisfied with the direction that the server is taking.

[Dworkin]

Its the emphasis on melee combat that leads me saddened. i first joined this mod because it had an emphasis on making sure that all classes had thier chance to shine. As it is i wind up having a character i spent 40 levels of careful planning on to allow maximum usage of the special abilities the class granted AND an excellent ac capable of standing up to a level 40 min maxed fighter who dies due to artificially inflated attack bonus's and whose special abilities have been rendered completely null. About all i have left is the ability to turn into a kobold and in the corner. Its the fact that just to create a character that can survive i'm going to have to choose a tier one class. Its the fact that i can watch a wizard use all his level 9 &8 spells and never touch an enemy and be forced to rely on a sword and hope criticals go through. Thats what i'm talking about. Last time i looked the majority of the characters where tier one classes with one or two 2's.

Oh and disarm whats up with that? i appear to have spent two feats for jack.

Also what in the world was the reasoning behind making undead immune to heal? that is a major major nerf on part with deciding that andy weapon bigger than light is incapable of damaging a monster.

How shall i put this. If the monsters can do everything a player can better then whats the point in players. Many monsters cant even kill themselves so whats a player to do.

I really should have tried to get on during the summer i've had misgivings about the player mob gap ever since the zentrium outpost was put in.

And i am not "belittling" the server i'm simply saying that people who prefer to have a character that is defined by more than the size of his sword are probably going to find this server unappealing after the new server glow fades away.