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Post by Higan on Aug 10, 2004 12:14:01 GMT
Still, there are new areas coming out that are not just hack and slash, such as the one rastan is making, it requires 3 people to do and you have to stand on certain areas to open a door so the rest of the party can walk through and so on
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Post by Master Jaxx on Aug 10, 2004 18:53:07 GMT
I think you should give it time Dworkin. I think the higher ground team is doing a superb job. I'm pretty new to the server. One of the things I like so much about it is the use of special abilities. My first character here was a ranger. I had tons of fun using his skills. Stealth, Animal Empath, and also Setting Traps. I'm now starting a rogue and find his skills very useful when in a party. It's too bad you feel the way you do. I just think you should give it time.
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Post by FormerAdmin on Aug 10, 2004 19:12:27 GMT
And just for a point of clarification: you said your Tier 1 group is no longer needed in the world of Higher Ground.
Well, I hate to tell you, but I currently have a level 28 DD, and he consistently the most powerful member in his groups. Between his damage resistance and consistent fighting skills, the Dwarven Defender is an amazing choice for a fighter.
As a matter of a fact, I think that he is probably the most powerful character i have made, out of the lot. So no, Tier 1s are NOT expired in our land. Without them, you would spend a life of running around, leveling VERY slow.
Ask anyone who has group with me (Crabby Duff is the character name): I ALWAYS go to the hardest places for my level, and NEVER die. Not only that, my team succeeds, many times, by the sheer fact that Crabby is the last person standing in large skirmishes.
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Post by Dworkin on Aug 10, 2004 19:22:03 GMT
Time indeed i have given i've been on this server for over 9 months (six if you subtract the last couple where i was off due to lack of connection)
The problem is not whether or not a good job is being done, its how the job is being done. I've been taking a look through the non poa areas and time after time the monsters have these traits
Attack increased Damage increased True seeing
Now the top two don't show up unless the mob has had his base stats artificially raised.
Groo since your new you probably haven't left the poa core sections very much and havent run into monsters with +71 attack bonus or some similarly overpowered abilities and immunities.
As for making areas that require more people? Thats completly not what i'm talking about as stated earlier. What i'm talking about is classes who rely on special abilities and class traits over raw damage are getting the shaft in many of the newer areas.
*repeat * Disarm, knockdown, etc arguments
someone at least respond to disarm at the min.
oh and i just found out that mass heal scrolls can be bought in a shop thank you for invalidating clerics not that undeads curious immunities to raw infusions of positive energy didn't already provoke irritation.
Its now a major thing, Its a large amount of minor things that are effectivly providing papercuts to the physical body of enjoyment slowly allowing the lifeblood of fun to drain out
Oh and dm's need to talk to players before mucking with thier characters
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Post by Dworkin on Aug 10, 2004 19:25:37 GMT
And just for a point of clarification: you said your Tier 1 group is no longer needed in the world of Higher Ground. Obviously you didn't read the entire post i may have made a typo and place a 1 or 2 but if you read the whole post it is clear i'm attempting to argue the salvation of tier 2's and 3'2 As a matter of a fact, I think that he is probably the most powerful character i have made, out of the lot. So no, Tier 1s are NOT expired in our land. Without them, you would spend a life of running around, leveling VERY slow. Thank you i couldn't have argued my point any better. That last line completly validates every single character of my post.
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Post by Higan on Aug 10, 2004 19:28:15 GMT
2's and 3's have their usses, in 2's you have spell casters that can also melee good, of course they arn't the best fighters, but cause they can cast spells to boost the ab, the 5 less they get from fighter dosn't matter much, and lots of things can still be taken out with ease by mages
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Post by Rastan on Aug 10, 2004 19:30:11 GMT
If you have an idea on what could be added to fix this "Injustice' then feel free to post what changes could be made If you think the DM team is doing a terrible job, and you could do better. Go to www.ancientwarriors.org/poashow.php and get yourself the basic PoA world.
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Post by Rastan on Aug 10, 2004 19:44:17 GMT
sorry about being blunt and all, but there are many changes planned. Having made 4 great characters, I have tured my efforts to area creation and scripting.
Many of my Ideas include stuff to lessen the need for brute strength including.....
Acomplishing specific tasks will allow shifters to upgrade various forms(spirit linking) Puzzle Areas:(Legend of Zelda style) Doppleganger spawns Quivers that never run out of arrows Resting speed affected by HD
If you have a great idea for an area then by all means sumbit it, or do it youryelf(see either RIP or Slayer for full rules about that). Perhaps if you spend some time in the toolset you'll learn how difficult making an area acually is.
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Post by Dworkin on Aug 10, 2004 21:20:46 GMT
Indeed i am fully aware of the difficulty of making new areas but that is once again not the issue here.
Issue 1.) Monsters with artificially enhanced babs and ac's
response to that Read my post i posted the maximum possible bab avalible to players and the ac's at which they then are reduced to waiting for natural 20's to hit something.
I also posted a chart that showed at what ac's the players have a 20% chance of hitting or to turn it into d20 results 17-20.
And higan you still don't seem to grasp that buffs reach a point of uselessness. Almost every character already has items that boost his/her primary stats above the overlaping +4 casters can get through thier spells. Many monsters have Spell Resistance high enough that caster spells will not go through. I watched a mage go through his entire spell list and was reduced to his melee weapon. of course he died in a couple of hits.
If the charts are too complicated for you let me simplify it
Give Tier 1 a 50% chance of hitting things Give Tier 2 a 25% chance of hitting things Give Tier 3 a 5% chance of hitting things and a chance for spells to go through.
Simply put The charts show the max possible bab on a bab monkey character.
I understand how easy it is for a designer to simply slap on an ac and attack bonus to make a "Harder" monster, But in doing so you raise its effective challenge rating w/o raising its HD resulting in it being weak against non physical attacks so then the designer slaps on immunities making it immune to said non physical attacks AND making the monster give out less exp for said more difficult encounter.
Still waiting on a response on.... Disarm, Call it sunder because the weapons are disappearing
Parry, die to inflated bab you can parry
knockdown not all that important but still annoying
Stunning understandable for undead and constructs but most things should be affected
Mindeffecting understandable for undead and constructs but most things should be affected, Even Players thats the whole point behind the saving throw system.
Ability to purchase high level scrolls. Thank you now ONE level in rogue will completely invalidate a full caster class at least the dm's havent figured out that you can maximized scrolls with a little work in game
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Post by Dworkin on Aug 10, 2004 21:28:17 GMT
p.s. we dont NEED any more power. We NEED challenges that respect the ingame limitations.
Here is some advice DO NOT playtest areas with minmaxed tier one classes that results in a power ration non tier 1's canNOT match. Playtest Areas with MinMaxed tier 2's so that average fighters will be able to survive and conquer and tier 2's will be able to do more than cower behind the said minmaxed fighter. I believe i stated this 4months ago when the zentriam outpost was produced. The monsters where scaled to a fighter class causing the wizards and clerics and such to die before they could even get off one spell. My character only survived by shifting into an undead form with 50% slashing immunity and using parry to block every third attack with my first. she couldn't even kill the zentriam and she is a min maxed character with one of the more powerful non melee shifter builds.
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Post by FormerAdmin on Aug 10, 2004 21:42:03 GMT
Dworkin: you have NO IDEA where, or what, we are currently doing with the MOD. You went away, for MONTHS, then come back, and act like you are in charge of everything that is going on here.
Well I hate to tell you, WE HAVE A LOT ON OUR PLATES, and we can't sift through essay long posts at whim, just to answer every question you pose. If you feel we are doing such a bad job on things, why don't you make actual SUGGESTIONS, instead of complaints.
And if you read AW's Forums, you would know, MOST MONSTERS put in the game (By Trespasser), are prefab Bioware monsters: NOT user created. So if you have a problem with their abilities, I say you take it up with Bioware.
We are not looking for an easy, cake walk, of a MOD. We are looking for PARTY BASED gameplay, that makes users work together as a team, to accomplish goals. If you want to be able to run around on your own, and level from 1-40 solo: THIS IS NOT THE MOD FOR YOU. We never once claimed, that a single character can be completely successful in our world.
No one character, can do it all. No one character, can have every ability that you'd like. And NO CHARACTER, should have rediculously high AB's. There are PLENTY of ways to increase AB, and damage done, in game. Endless weapon buffs, potions, scrolls, items, YOU NAME IT.
And as you said, the lasttime you were here, was when the Zhentarim Outpost was being made (still is NOT done, Doc Love never finished production). That shows HOW MUCH has changed since you left, and how little you know about the direction of our current production.
Before you lambast us, go do some historic reading, and figure out the facts before you go all essay style on us.
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Post by FormerAdmin on Aug 10, 2004 21:49:49 GMT
And again: if you think you should be able to walk into the Zhentarim Outpost, with simply a shifter, and own the enemies, you are SADLY mistaken.
The original concept, of the Outpost, was for level 40 groups to be CHALLENGED: not to walk through with ease. I think, you are looking to be a solo player, and that is NOT what our MOD is geared towards.
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Post by Rastan on Aug 10, 2004 22:07:29 GMT
Spell Resist Most mages arn't pure so there penetration is weak. according to the handbook. spell penetration = 1D20 + [level in spellcaster].
You can also improve the penetraion by 10 by taking feats in spell penetration(great and epic stack for a total of +10).
Monsters can only be giving a spell resist up to 52 and characters can go as high as a 1d20 +50. My lvl 38 mage can hit anything but Dragon's Monk (wasted all epic feats on spell resist) with almost 100% accuracy
The only trouble i ran into was the castle gaobin bosses (could only damage them with with epic spells). and thats becuase they were immune, not resisted them
Parry Parry is a good skill when used against one enemy, such as a Dragon. However, In a mass battle Duelists are not neccesarily the best choice
Most skill ranks can clear 100 (parry can go up 127) and no monster on PoA will ever have an attack that high.
If monsters are hitting you too often, maybe you should increase your AC, all builds can recieve 73+ AC if they wanted to. you can also buy a "dust of disappearnce" from the alchemist, which when used makes monsters miss you 50% of the time
Scroll Usage Scrolls cannot be maximised, or improved in anyway. they also only go uper to certain levels. Weak spell resist is so UMDers cant use Mass Heals scrolls to get easy EXP from undead A level 40 Cleric's Mass Heal can weaken all nearby undead
Another used scroll is a "Blade Blade of Disaster" however unless you put ranks in Concentration they dont last long (Oh, and dont complain about using scrolls,Dworkin. I remember very well that you took a level in sorcerer just to be able to use BBoD scrolls)
knockdown, and stunning fist First off, these skills are hardly used by anyone but monks, who get the best AC, Spell resist, speed, and attacks (second best BAB, but dmage and # make up for it), so they dont need any more bonuses. Also 'knockdown' and 'stunning fist' time is stored so you can make a monster useless by repeditively hitting it with this skill.
Also many monsters are not immune to Mind Effecting spells as you prevously stated. besides Undead, Construct, and Bosses. Very few monsters seem to have mind immune without a reason why
Disarm and PickPocketing Im with you on this one. These skills are currently nothing more than a PvP annoyance.
If monsters can do something to you, then you should be able to do the same thing to them (IE: animated corpses [need to teach them to use that weapon against you] and rogue specters)#nosmileys
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Post by FormerAdmin on Aug 10, 2004 22:44:04 GMT
Very well put, Rastan: thank you for a thorough post. There are MANY ways to protect yourself, in our world. Whether you choose to use the items/abilities at your command, is all up to you.
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Post by Slayer on Aug 10, 2004 23:01:26 GMT
As an aside, Tres never liked pickpocketing and so there are very few chances to do so. This is being changed as we speak. The idea of pickpocketing a mobs heal pots is great. Disarm is seldom available at high lvls because we can't have you disarming creatures who have 3mil in equipment. We'd have to eliminate found loot then. I am creating ways around this as we speak as well.
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