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Post by FunkySwerve on Oct 10, 2006 15:13:12 GMT
Ok, if the destructiveness to game balance of this isn't smacking you right in the foirehead, it probably never will. Let me reiterate - not gonna happen. Even if it WERE possible to penalize Con in that fashi9on, which it isn't. Funky
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Post by irongolem on Oct 10, 2006 16:31:44 GMT
Ok, if the destructiveness to game balance of this isn't smacking you right in the foirehead, it probably never will. Let me reiterate - not gonna happen. Even if it WERE possible to penalize Con in that fashi9on, which it isn't. Funky {removed by me}
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Post by thedomicron on Oct 11, 2006 5:35:15 GMT
would it be possible to scale the dc of the shifter's lizardfolk whipmasters stun on hit?
or maybe give it a one time boost at, say, shifter lvl x?
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Post by lala on Oct 11, 2006 12:46:58 GMT
The reason I specified two feats was to require something relevant. So lets amend that to remove focus and feat requirements, and add a bit of required activity before this can be acquired: Requirements: 1) Arcane Class 2) Casting level 42+ 3) Must speak to an NPC in the Arcane Academy to obtain a class secret (Wizard or Sorcerer depending on the Arcane Type). The NPC is set to plot so that they are not killed or go hostile, but only appears after the Headmaster is killed. NPC will only talk to mages that have been in the area when the Headmaster was killed since last reset. Action: Arcane Caster casting Light on themselves when the above is fulfilled Penalties: Takes 1 point of constitution per casting (returns only after rest, cannot be resisted). Bonuses: Spell Resistance checks factor in a bonus of 1/4 casting levels when casting spells at an opponent. Bud, I think the only way to maintain game balance would be to enhance the mord spell and the legendary mord spell along the lines I have suggested in the respective topics.
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Post by irongolem on Oct 11, 2006 19:05:11 GMT
Bud, I think the only way to maintain game balance would be to enhance the mord spell and the legendary mord spell along the lines I have suggested in the respective topics. La, just read it now - that would be an improvement over this issue, and help mages get a bit more balance over the Cleric and Druid. I'd say that would go a far way to resolving the problem. No need to read further, unless your sanity has little value (or something). ___________________________ My point was, though was that last time I checked, balance meant classes are more or less equal in their ability to participate in party. A party should have some variation to be really balanced (caster, melee, tank, rogue, etc - or variations of the same). Classes are more type, than class. The Arcane caster is alone in this struggle: they have no alternative to casting a spell. That's part and parcel of the deal: powerful spells in return they have the lowest health and only limited options in battle... argh!! I'm starting up on a roll again. Sorry all, iron out! Sanity returned!!
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Post by Yomi on Oct 11, 2006 20:42:36 GMT
My sanity started getting seriously questioned as soon as I got to this part "help mages get a bit more balance over the Cleric and Druid." You do know that clerics don't get mord, right? So while mages at least can cast it (and it's not uncommon in desert), clerics can't? I've given up in frustration with a level 50 cleric after 6 harm attempts on a single deverial, watching them all bounce off and knowing I don't have any way to lower the SR (admittedly unlucky rolls). Even prayer bounces off of them. Not to mention all the mobs that are nicely immune to destruction and harm (imagine if you got white immune bubbles around half the mobs in an area when you cast FoD). Sure, earthquake bypasses SR, but it does quite a bit less damage than Meteors too, and you have to run around and pop loot before you can cast it (this is not so bad for someone with lots of experience, but makes the spell hardly usable for a person new to an area). I find meteors with a wiz much quicker than earthquakes with a cleric -- they just do more damage.
You know caster clerics (the ones most similar to traditional mages) aren't terribly effective in combat either, right? My ab is 30 before buffing, and 55 after boring the party to tears with buff after buff. Damage with a Dachy staff is going to make even dexers hitting crit immune things feel sorry for me. So pretty much I have no alternative to casting. There's no reason eitehr a cleric or mage should have the lowest health. My pure wizard often had more hp than other people in his party while levelling, and with tensers you usually are matching the RDDs.
Druid being tougher than a wizard doesn't match my experience from partying with some (haven't played one yet), especially having been on yet another Lolth run watching the druid run around in circles trying to get away from everything. Maybe it's equipment, but it sure isn't the first time I've seen that happen. If it were a mage, they could hit him with a Bigby, but wait -- clerics and druids don't get that. A selfish mage could cast timestop and get a handle on things, but wait -- clerics and druids don't get TS.
Back on the topic, it seems apparent from me looking at SR numbers that some thought has gone into all of these. When you see numbers like 68, 69, and 70 on various mobs, and think about spell penetration numbers for pure vs. splash mages, at least I start thinking maybe this was all worked out. Even 1 more SR will change the balance. Maybe a Hell's caster staff that gives +2 SR once per day. I bet that would be in very high demand unless it was really nerfed in spell slots. Raising arcane casters SR by 1/4 (or about 15) is just insane. Goodbye clerics -- sorry, you can't cast spells on anything any more since everything's SR was raised to rebalance for the wizards and sorcs.
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Post by halo26 on Oct 11, 2006 21:55:33 GMT
Am gonna side with yomi here, i have got one of each type of caster (wiz, sorc, pm, cleric and druid) to LL and i think Funky and the team have done a great job at balancing them!OK so a wiz doesnt have a spell that goes thru sr... mord them!! or just wait til u r high enuff lvl! in the mean time u have wail, pwk, meteor and grapple all of which can devestate areas! When i play my wiz i stare in envy at druids harming 70% of desert, shunting damage and eq devs... i then switch to my druid and watch as an arcane caster gains me 1 billion xp (slight exaggeration) through wailing the entire barracks in one mass spawn! Clerics get implosion...no further comment needed... with the right party they can kill anything in one shot! as of yet i couldnt even tell u whichis my fav caster cos they all rock... IF u build em and play them right!
Halo
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Post by irongolem on Oct 12, 2006 1:38:47 GMT
Ok, apologies first. This is not the thread for this kind of discussion, and I really take my hat off to the Admins (yep and Funky too) for not locking or simply kicking me off. I'll happily start a new thread if that would be better.
Onward.
You're thinking linearly. "Caster=cast spells at the opposition". This is a Mage concept of battle. As a mage, your buffs (the good ones that are useful to someone in the front line) are caster-only; so beyond very minor outer shell buffs (temporary stat increases become unnecessary once you reach legendary levels; and weapon enhancements are practically all you are good for at those levels), you're pretty much there to cast spells at the opposition; whether by AoE or directly, or alternatively using summons or other tricks against the enemy if available (summons - even elementals that should be able to - cannot survive in the desert or underwater, killing a chunk of area's that people actually want to make runs through currently)
As a Cleric you are able to have this view too (very well in fact, the game engine by default allows you to be almost as good as a Mage when it comes to this - no argument there, nor do I see an issue with that, it just is the way it's designed). However, your primary purpose is meant to be as a healer first, battle caster second. Hence why you don't have things like Mords or Breaches. When you cannot cast spells on your opposition (and believe me, I've played in party with enough clerics to know this is rare enough), you can always be a Cleric.
What's that, Iron smoking something vaguely illegal? I AM a cleric what you mean, "be a Cleric"? Well, Rez the dead. Heal the wounded. Turn the Undead. Buff the needy to godhood (you said it yourself, your own bad stats become mediocre from pure crud when you buff - imagine a melee tanker or fighter-type with those buffs!). With the AC you can acquire since you don't need to worry about such silly things as spell failure, or HG spell improvements you can actually be right next to a tank, healing him. curing him from bad effects, and keeping him upright. THAT is supposed to be a clerics function, not taking over the battle casting too. Well, maybe not, I guess the fact it's a Cleric something is staring me in the face and I'm missing it?
The same is nearly true of the Druid, in fact very closely - most of the primary Cleric functions can be performed well by the Druid; barring Rez as a spell. As a bonus, a legendary spell is available on HG which lowers your opponents SR by 20. Score! and you don't even really need to depend on those spells, coz you have abilities that can compensate to make you into a mediocre tank in a pinch.
Just how happy is the party going to be with you when you're constantly destroying their meager potion/ability/etc buffs just to get a 50-60% chance of hitting through SR [rare when you can hit it on 80% chance or less anyway]? Not very, that's for sure.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Oct 12, 2006 1:58:20 GMT
Ok, apologies first. This is not the thread for this kind of discussion, and I really take my hat off to the Admins (yep and Funky too) for not locking or simply kicking me off. I'll happily start a new thread if that would be better. Actually I was in this middle of posting something very similar when I was called away. All this does here is waste my time when I'm looking to make changes while updating. Take it elsewwhere please. Funky
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Post by thedomicron on Oct 20, 2006 7:45:13 GMT
would it be possible to make barbarian rage give temporary on-hit properties? while i realize barbarians are pretty strong, i wonder if it might be interesting to assign a temporary on-hit property to thundering rage (or even replace mighty rages +8 enchantment w/ temp dev crit ) might be an interesting use of the feat.
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Post by tyranlthixis on Oct 22, 2006 7:52:35 GMT
I was thinking about how to improve shifter AC for forms other than Dragon. AC tends to be a limiting factor in certain areas and especially with the non dragon forms. Lately I have been playing a cleric and have been able to buff Sabre's new shifter with high level barkskin and have been privileged on occasion to have a druid or cleric around with a high level version of the spell for myself. This really helps a lot. It brings dragon form into the mid/high 130's and the others into the mid/high 120's, which is comparable to other well equipped tanks.
I was hoping you might consider modding barkskin for shifters in the same way that was done for plant clerics and druids. That is modded up to +13 ac at level 60 for a pure druid/shifter with the bonuses for spell focuses up till epic. We used evocation books on old shifters long before barkskin was originally modded (kind of kicking myself now but such is life). A +11 to +15 version of the spell would be extremely helpful when caught in a party without barkskin support or when one is out soloing. Most importantly it would make some of the more fragile forms more hardy/usable in more areas and for new areas. For example, I love the idea of using the undead forms to tank when crit happy monsters are about.
Tyran
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Post by Ironfang on Oct 24, 2006 17:39:03 GMT
Its been mentioned before and I beleive most people agree that Clerics need a little defensive boost. Could one of their spells perhaps be coded to offer a small % immunity to all the exotic damages? Perhaps 1% / 4 levels to max at 15%? (Shield of Faith, Endure Elements, Aura vs. Alignment or Undeaths Eternal Foe could be candidates)
Also I don't know if this is possible but perhaps if a Cleric had the Trickery Domain they could get an improved version of the Imp. Invis spell that offered some concealment higher than 25%? Maybe maxing at 50-60% similar to a Druid. If not the Trickery Domain maybe some other spell that is available to all clerics. (Change Entropic to work against all attacks or again maybe Shield of Faith, Aura vs. Alignment etc. could be spell candidates)
Thanks for your consideration 'Fang
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Post by mishimayukio on Oct 24, 2006 18:30:22 GMT
Peronally I would like to see some caster only defensive benefit to undeath's eternal foe, being a level 9 spell you need to give up implosion or EQ slots for what would probably be the cleric's most important defensive buff.
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Post by irongolem on Oct 24, 2006 21:04:48 GMT
Peronally I would like to see some caster only defensive benefit to undeath's eternal foe, being a level 9 spell you need to give up implosion or EQ slots for what would probably be the cleric's most important defensive buff. It would ruin game balance!!!
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Post by FunkySwerve on Oct 24, 2006 22:02:08 GMT
Again, this is a suggestion thread, not a discussion thread. Funky
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