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Post by Balduvard on Jun 6, 2006 20:27:12 GMT
Yeah, as you pointed out the script is bugged...it is supposed to take the caster's level into account, but it doesn't so it takes the level as the default (15). Even casting horrid wilting (an 8th level spell, by the way) with 15 casterlevels, you're doing an average of 4.5 x 15 = 67 damage. That's assuming of course that your target fails its saving throw of 21...which I believe only the creatures West of town are capable of--not the most popular spots to level characters around L12.
So at most you're doing 20-40 damage per spell cast at them, which seems fine at that level. My opinion? If you want to cripple your build by taking one level of bard just so that you can use this item once per day (5x if you decide to also blow a feat on Extra music), be my guest.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 6, 2006 21:18:02 GMT
Yeah, we won't be changing the item. The description is not bugged, LL has always been unlimited uses ON THE ITEM, its use is limited by uses of bard song. Horrids is eigth level, by the way. It's somewhat overpowered until you look at a level 12 bard. They are one of the weakest classes at low levels. In five or six levels the imbalance is gone, largely due to a nonscaling dc. A few levels later, and you'll probably never use it again. As for taking a level of bard to get this, thats pretty silly. Even if it were not the case that number of song uses is based on bard levels, it'd be a bad idea - which is why you don't see other people doing it. I might consider moving it, or possibly level restricting it to 15, but the imbalance on net isn't that great. In any case, thanks for the input, and welcome to the forums! Funky
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Post by aegeon on Jun 9, 2006 17:38:20 GMT
First off, let me say I think you guys have done an awesome with balancing stuff out on this server, and are doing a great job running it. I think that the way the cures and inflicts work are pretty good, but I see you guys still have a problem with harm. Heal might not be so bad, but I'm curious as to why you guys haven't changed harm over to the 3.5 version (10 damage per caster level, will save for 1/2), and keep the spell immunity to harm around for the higher level monsters. If you wanted to change it to something that could be empowered/maximized, you could make it 2d8 per caster level, or ranks in heal if you wanted to have it be a little more easily applied. Wether or not you want to do the same thing for heal, I dunno.
The 3.5 players handbook is a little ambigious on wether it can kill someone if they make their save. It says that it can't kill them if they make their save, but I should think it would be fair to allow harm to kill people who have failed their save. I haven't actually played a cleric, so I can't say how much of an issue there is with things being harm immune, but I really hate the yes/no function of harm in NWN.
Aegeon
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Post by DragonChyld on Jun 10, 2006 0:56:40 GMT
I notice it was mentioned one time before here in this thread but I would revisit it. True Seeing Sucks man... In PnP and the Players Handbook 3.5 TS CAN see all kinds of stuff EXCEPT Hidden Characters. Here is the real catch though. Using common sense WHY would True seeing allow you to see hidden characters, Invis is a MAGICAL effect, thus a spell that basically negates that feature makes sense. However a Naturally aquired skill at sticking to the shadows should not be wiped away by a spell. Then there is 2 other issues, aside from all the items that give you hide, or M/S beneifits being useless. there is the fact that the skills themselves are useless. AND the Bard Spell Amplify. This would be a KICK ass spell if it was not for TS showing H/MS characters... I mean Amplify scalled for Level would be a VERY viable part of a bards spell selection. Then if you gave bad guys H/MS it would be balanced on bot sides of the board and make several items, 2 skills and a spell that are worthless have real value. I know that TS can be adjusted to NOT see hidden characters. Yes I was playing to the fact that I know bards are your fav class Funky The server rocks either way, I just hate to see stuff useless in a server that kicks as much ass as this one.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 10, 2006 2:46:11 GMT
First off, let me say I think you guys have done an awesome with balancing stuff out on this server, and are doing a great job running it. I think that the way the cures and inflicts work are pretty good, but I see you guys still have a problem with harm. Heal might not be so bad, but I'm curious as to why you guys haven't changed harm over to the 3.5 version (10 damage per caster level, will save for 1/2), and keep the spell immunity to harm around for the higher level monsters. If you wanted to change it to something that could be empowered/maximized, you could make it 2d8 per caster level, or ranks in heal if you wanted to have it be a little more easily applied. Wether or not you want to do the same thing for heal, I dunno. The 3.5 players handbook is a little ambigious on wether it can kill someone if they make their save. It says that it can't kill them if they make their save, but I should think it would be fair to allow harm to kill people who have failed their save. I haven't actually played a cleric, so I can't say how much of an issue there is with things being harm immune, but I really hate the yes/no function of harm in NWN. Aegeon That sounds like an interesting change. I'm not sure harm is a problem just yet, however (I'm actually more concerned with its kid brothers at the moment). Cleric spells are intentionally slightly overpowered at the moment (see earthquake), because their defense is a bit on the weak side (though were testing to see just how weak). Implosion was another prime example, though its be nudged down as well, especially because a few +5 WIS subraces were added. Its at dc parity with wail right now, but may get a +1 nudge, depending. Once feat/epic spells edits are complete I'll probably revisit spells and tweak both mage and priest defense and offense - I'm guessing 90% conceal on EV will be getting nudged back down a bit, though thats pretty speculative at this point, since reworked dispels could really throw casters for a loop, especially mages. In any case, what I wanted to highlight in the meanderings above is that the server balance is an ever-evolving beast. Thanks for the suggestion! Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 10, 2006 2:51:12 GMT
I notice it was mentioned one time before here in this thread but I would revisit it. True Seeing Sucks man... In PnP and the Players Handbook 3.5 TS CAN see all kinds of stuff EXCEPT Hidden Characters. Here is the real catch though. Using common sense WHY would True seeing allow you to see hidden characters, Invis is a MAGICAL effect, thus a spell that basically negates that feature makes sense. However a Naturally aquired skill at sticking to the shadows should not be wiped away by a spell. Then there is 2 other issues, aside from all the items that give you hide, or M/S beneifits being useless. there is the fact that the skills themselves are useless. AND the Bard Spell Amplify. This would be a KICK ass spell if it was not for TS showing H/MS characters... I mean Amplify scalled for Level would be a VERY viable part of a bards spell selection. Then if you gave bad guys H/MS it would be balanced on bot sides of the board and make several items, 2 skills and a spell that are worthless have real value. I know that TS can be adjusted to NOT see hidden characters. Yes I was playing to the fact that I know bards are your fav class Funky The server rocks either way, I just hate to see stuff useless in a server that kicks as much ass as this one. This is a common edit on many servers, converting TS to a spot bonus. It would cause other complications on our server, however, both because of some custom scripting and because of higher skill totals. If it hasn't been changed in NWN2 I will definitely consider going this route (were actually going to begin discussion of HG2 on the dev forum soon), but it'd be a ton of work compared to the benefit it'd offer on HG1, so it's in the maybe-but-probably-not column for the time being. Thanks for the input! Funky
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Post by mishimayukio on Jun 13, 2006 21:45:56 GMT
Modify the raise dead and resurrection spells so when cast by actual clerics rather than scrolls, they grant more HP/temp HP, the amount depending on casterlevel and/or wisdom modifier.
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Post by Ironfang on Jun 14, 2006 15:18:29 GMT
Modify the raise dead and resurrection spells so when cast by actual clerics rather than scrolls, they grant more HP/temp HP, the amount depending on casterlevel and/or wisdom modifier. I think that is a pretty cool idea, might actually memorize some. Or maybe a Rod of Ressurection that Clerics can recharge by casting Rez into it. The Rod seems to work so much faster.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 14, 2006 15:30:49 GMT
I like that idea, will probably add it in the feats update. Thanks, Funky
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Post by pathogen on Jun 24, 2006 14:47:14 GMT
If you're talking about the modded version on the server, it has a LOT of uses. Extra hit point bank, for starters. For seconds, my elven mage has the Ruinmaker long sword. Combined with Greater Magic Weapon I can get an AB of close to +60, which is pretty high for a mage with a base Strength of 6. If I find I memorized the wrong spells, or am trying to save them for a boss fight, I can go to Tenser's and do some damage (not as much as any tank, but some), and it won't cost me more than one spell slot. This is helpful in late-game where it pays to be a little more economical with spells.
As for my suggestions, cone effect attack spells are my least favorite spells to use, as they're more difficult to aim correctly, have a shorter range, and achieve only the same effect as a fireball, lightning bolt, or whatever. If Mestil's Acid Breath and Cone of Cold would move up to d8 damage, it would be more interesting.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 24, 2006 16:24:57 GMT
You're right, it has a lot of uses, though this isn't one I would've mentioned. Try using it with vamps touch. Also, it is exceedingly unlikely that your ab is actually getting that high. Don't believe your character sheet, it will lie to you. Verify ab in the combat log. Weapon enhancement/attack bonus + scripted bonuses like spells are combined and cap at +20, but that cap is not reflected on the character sheet, so its likely your ab is a good 5-10 points lower than you think. Touch attacks are much more useful, because they don't have to trump the whole ac. Funky
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Post by pathogen on Jun 24, 2006 17:36:46 GMT
You're right, it has a lot of uses, though this isn't one I would've mentioned. Try using it with vamps touch. Also, it is exceedingly unlikely that your ab is actually getting that high. Don't believe your character sheet, it will lie to you. Verify ab in the combat log. Weapon enhancement/attack bonus + scripted bonuses like spells are combined and cap at +20, but that cap is not reflected on the character sheet, so its likely your ab is a good 5-10 points lower than you think. Touch attacks are much more useful, because they don't have to trump the whole ac. Funky OK, good to know, but I still tend to hit things more often when I GMW + Tenser's, even if it isn't the full +billion bonus. Also, is it possible for familiars to be useful in late game? That sure would be nice. After about level 10 familiars die instantly in any combat situation, and everyone has a Pixie, since those are about the only familiars with a non-combat usage. It's kind of disheartening when you see GOLOTHMOGOG THE SLAYER OF DOOM summon his pixie to work on a chest.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 24, 2006 19:20:06 GMT
Only way to mod familiars would be far more work than it's worth. Even if we only did versions every 5 levels or so. And it'd be a hack at best, because to mod them effectively you need to use a hak, and we don't use haks, other than CEP. Funky
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Post by fusa on Jul 3, 2006 15:52:17 GMT
just posting this as a reminder more than anything, could Evard's Black Tentacles be scaled for LL's? would be a nice cloud spell for casters esp in areas where they can't beatthe sr of mobs.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 3, 2006 15:58:32 GMT
It's already been fixed for the AoE bug in the coming update. As far as scaling, that will have to await playtest, because it's very powerful as it is. Funky
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