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Post by mishimayukio on Jun 19, 2006 22:10:41 GMT
I just ran a test in my local mod, and bludgeoning damage on gloves does indeed stack with the monk's base damage. The only downside is that while you can increase the bludgeoning damage so its more like an enhancement bonus, you are still relying on the monk's ki strike feat to penetrate soak (+3 IIRC, goes up to +5 with 2 feats.)
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Post by Master Jaxx on Jun 19, 2006 22:24:27 GMT
Well, here is what I did to check the cost of super uber monkey gloves.
+20 ab 2d12 magical, pos, neg, divine, fire, cold, elec, acid, sonic, slashing, piercing, blunt (thx mish, thought it worked the same as reg weps) This ends up being a 61+ wep. Cost in gp is 13,225,001. You say 200 M is the cap no? If I'm understanding this correctly. So basically if we went with this... +20 ab 2d12 magical, pos, neg, divine, fire, cold, elec, acid, sonic, slash, piercing, blunt. Then adding 10% immune to slash, blunt, piercing, +5 regen, +5 universal saves, +16 ac deflect. I come up with 32,121,603 M. I guess in this case temp props wouldn't be necessary but if for some reason all of these add ons exceeded the item lvl restricions in place, they would be a work around.
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Post by lala on Jun 19, 2006 22:24:57 GMT
Ah I was suggesting say 25 levels of Monk for the hope of a very powerful glove combining offensive for damage and ab, and also additional stats comparable to some of the top general gauntlets.
Yue I believe monk gloves are different in the way they behave with damage reduction. While it is attack bonus and doesnt get any damage bonus it does still apply as an enhancement for the purpose of getting through the damage resist. This was done because +5 was nothing special when playing HotU. So +15 gloves will work break through x/+15 damage reduction. Well I am sure they used to anyway, lots of historical discussions on this on the bioware forums.
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Post by mishimayukio on Jun 19, 2006 22:33:35 GMT
From NWNwiki under Ki Strike:
I guess you're right. Unarmed monk isnt looking as bad after all. Does anyone know if the same goes for bows?
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Post by lala on Jun 19, 2006 23:00:40 GMT
Adding casterlevels wouldn't accomplish much for any AA with only 1 level of caster class - many or most of them - because they would still only have access to first level spells. Shield only goes so far, ditto mage armor. More likely to see something along the lines of an EV as fusa suggedted, but I'm not real happy with that solution either, as it would have to be via item. As far as over crit goes, I was actually considering dev crit, because bows have a reletively low crit range, and only a 1 save would fail. That's a pretty low chance of a one-shot kill, much lower than the assassin currently enjoys. 1 in 200 shots that hit (nearly all shots hit) would insta kill. At 6 attacks (is it 6 with rapid fire? haven't played AA in forever) per round, thats roughly once every 36 rounds or so - 6 times less often than the assassin's 1/6 rounds. Over crit itself makes a very small damage difference. Funky The dev crit idea is really nice, not sure what to suggest for helping AA to stand up to a mob. However, I would be concerned about EV as AA get much better offensive compared to some of the other ac tank classes such as shadow dancer. Not sure how others would feel about Rapid Shot being modified (if it can). One possibility would be that it still gives an extra attack with -2, but also have it give AC balanced with further penalties. The AC bonus could be half the AA level, while penalty is -1 for every 1 AC given but capped at 10. So a 30 AA/10 something else with Rapid shot enabled does; * 1 extra attack with -2 attack penalty * 15 ac * -10 extra penalty (capped at this) In total the penalty would be -12, however this also would balance out the dev crit so if a player wants to activate Rapid shot for the benefits it lowers the chance of a Dev crit a little. This would do away with the EV requirement, and would mean they have a better chance with mobs.
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Post by DragonChyld on Jun 19, 2006 23:32:44 GMT
Do you think that Scalling the AC bonus that PM's get would be too much in the way of power for a PM with the edits you already suggested?
~ DC
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Post by avatarofshadows on Jun 19, 2006 23:54:59 GMT
Still when building on HG a player shouldn’t be stuck having to take a splash of monk to have a build that would survive. If that is the case the only viable AA build would require that for your 3rd class and only real choice on your build you are stuck using monk. Not really all that appealing knowing u don’t really have a choice on the build.
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Post by fusa on Jun 20, 2006 1:19:50 GMT
I didnt have much problems doing a 1 Wizard/13 Rogue/26 Arcane Archer build. If he's surrounded he's probably dead in a fight in Illithiads or Sssy'is. In this build I also took Epic Dodge and Self Conceal 5. Its just a pain to play an AA since the damage is so low even with an ultra rare quiver, and always having to stay way in the back (Wizards and Sorcerers make better tanks now)
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Post by lala on Jun 20, 2006 7:12:39 GMT
I didnt have much problems doing a 1 Wizard/13 Rogue/26 Arcane Archer build. If he's surrounded he's probably dead in a fight in Illithiads or Sssy'is. In this build I also took Epic Dodge and Self Conceal 5. Its just a pain to play an AA since the damage is so low even with an ultra rare quiver, and always having to stay way in the back (Wizards and Sorcerers make better tanks now) Just out of curiosity why is the damage so low? Your arrows should be +13 enchanted and your doing 13d6 dmg without anything else added to the arrow. Just wondering what makes the damage low as I dont have experience of AA here. Also anything wrong with my AC bonus suggestion on Rapid shot? Cheers Lala
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Post by mishimayukio on Jun 20, 2006 8:17:58 GMT
It's 13 damage, not 13d6. Most of that gets absorbed by physical immunity, DR, and soak.
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Post by lala on Jun 20, 2006 8:48:22 GMT
Me bad, messed up reading and thought it was Enchant Arrow that was changed hehe.
Well maybe something could be done with Enchant Arrow? Hopefully its not hard coded.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 20, 2006 13:28:18 GMT
Well, here is what I did to check the cost of super uber monkey gloves. +20 ab 2d12 magical, pos, neg, divine, fire, cold, elec, acid, sonic, slashing, piercing, blunt (thx mish, thought it worked the same as reg weps) This ends up being a 61+ wep. Cost in gp is 13,225,001. You say 200 M is the cap no? If I'm understanding this correctly. So basically if we went with this... +20 ab 2d12 magical, pos, neg, divine, fire, cold, elec, acid, sonic, slash, piercing, blunt. Then adding 10% immune to slash, blunt, piercing, +5 regen, +5 universal saves, +16 ac deflect. I come up with 32,121,603 M. I guess in this case temp props wouldn't be necessary but if for some reason all of these add ons exceeded the item lvl restricions in place, they would be a work around. The reason that the cap is 200M is that I edited a 2da. Without that same edit, your version still shows the standard cap. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 20, 2006 13:33:59 GMT
The dev crit idea is really nice, not sure what to suggest for helping AA to stand up to a mob. However, I would be concerned about EV as AA get much better offensive compared to some of the other ac tank classes such as shadow dancer. It wouldn't really be EV, it'd be a lower amount of conceal. There's no way to edit Rapid Shot, absent a hak. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 20, 2006 13:37:55 GMT
Do you think that Scalling the AC bonus that PM's get would be too much in the way of power for a PM with the edits you already suggested? ~ DC Wouldn't do it if I could, and I can't. They don't need more ac. Funky
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Post by fusa on Jun 20, 2006 14:15:21 GMT
I didnt have much problems doing a 1 Wizard/13 Rogue/26 Arcane Archer build. If he's surrounded he's probably dead in a fight in Illithiads or Sssy'is. In this build I also took Epic Dodge and Self Conceal 5. Its just a pain to play an AA since the damage is so low even with an ultra rare quiver, and always having to stay way in the back (Wizards and Sorcerers make better tanks now) Just out of curiosity why is the damage so low? Your arrows should be +13 enchanted and your doing 13d6 dmg without anything else added to the arrow. Just wondering what makes the damage low as I dont have experience of AA here. Also anything wrong with my AC bonus suggestion on Rapid shot? Cheers Lala Critical hits in Illithiads at max are 30 , regular hits usually around 3-8
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