The Doppelganger Druid (Druid 38/Ranger 1/Monk 1)

[johannhowitzer]

I've been talking about a rebuild of my Druid recently. A lot of people have Doppelganger and those people have been sending me tells asking about my build, so here it is. I'm also posting this because I'm considering a minor tweak and I want some second opinions.

Human Doppelganger, Lawful Neutral
Starting abilities [subrace]
STR 8 [6]
DEX 12
CON 14 [16]
INT 12
WIS 18 [23]
CHA 8 [6]
All ability increases in Wisdom.

Skills: max Animal Empathy, Concentration, Parry, and Spellcraft. Dump Discipline at Ranger and Monk levels, and Tumble to 40 at Monk level. Rest of the points go into Heal or Craft Armor, your pick; I chose Craft Armor.

Leveling:
1 - Spell Focus (transmutation), Greater Spell Focus (transmutation)
3 - Spell Focus (evocation)
6 - Greater Spell Focus (evocation)
9 - Spell Focus (conjuration)
12 - Greater Spell Focus (conjuration)
15 - Silent Spell
18 - Empower Spell
21 - RANGER LEVEL, Epic Spell Focus (conjuration), Epic Spell Focus (evocation)
24 - Spell Penetration
25 - Epic Spell Focus (transmutation)
27 - Great Wisdom I
29 - Great Wisdom II
30 - Greater Spell Penetration
33 - Armor Skin, Great Wisdom III
36 - Epic Reflexes
37 - Great Wisdom IV
39 - Lightning Reflexes
40 - MONK LEVEL
41 - READ ILLUSION/NECROMANCY BOOK
42 - Legendary Reflexes
45 - Legendary Spell Focus (transmutation)
48 - Epic Spell Penetration
51 - Epic Fortitude
54 - Legendary Spell Focus (conjuration)
57 - Legendary Spell Penetration
60 - Great Wisdom V

I had originally taken 4 more DEX and 2 less WIS at creation, but I found that switching those points allowed me to drop 2 Great Wisdom feats for Armor Skin and Epic Reflexes - gaining a net 2 reflexes and 2 AC while flat-footed, at absolutely no cost!

Ending stats (fully buffed):
STR 6 (18)
DEX 12 (24)
CON 16 (28)
INT 12 (24)
WIS 48 (60)
CHA 6 (18)

HP: 902 (you can drop Armor Skin for Toughness if you like, but the build was pretty tight feat-wise)
Fortitude: 60
Reflex: 61
Will: 72
AC wearing UR light armor and UR large shield: 140, or 144 with Girding. Counting artifact and double demi, it reaches all the way to 149, maybe 150 if you can fit a +17 deflection item. If you read a Necromancy book instead of Illusion, subtract 3-4 AC. Flat-foot loses 33 AC.

You'll get great AC and four epics, good DC on Nature's Balance, Drown, and primary damage spells, +16 Barkskin for shifter allies, and good saves across the board, plus Evasion of course. I put all the reflex feats near level 40 so right after immo you can do Dachy for the tag without fearing his breath so much, which has a DC of 60.

Downsides... no Frailty. I guess you could switch to an Abjuration book, but that one-shot mass NB didn't seem to me as important as the extra AC and the inflictions on Creeping Doom. Also no Improved Combat Casting, I prefer to use defensive casting mode. If you must squeeze it in there, about the only thing you could drop would be two Great Wisdom feats.

My quandary is thus: if I drop LSF conjuration and Armor Skin for two Great Wisdom feats, I lose 1 DC on damage spells and 1 AC, but gain 1 DC on Drown and all other non-conjuration spells. Worth it?

[johannhowitzer]

Bumping this since it didn't get any response. I'm still curious what people think about the build as a whole; it can't be perfect!

Also, I'd like some opinions on the dilemma I described at the end. I'm rebuilding this druid now, and I want to get it right this time.

[ebonyivory]

whats the ranger lvl for?

[chirikov]

its for the extra feat

[johannhowitzer]

Alternately, you can drop Epic Fortitude and take Paladin instead of Ranger, which increases all saves by 4 - covering the 4 lost from the dropped feat. That's only if you stay Good, though. I just decided I liked Ranger better.

[ilovedietpepsi]

Few things i would do:
1. Take Paladin instead of ranger, and get the paladin level pre-epic, you get some fortitude save for free, and at least +4 to all saves.
2. That would save you 2 feats, epic reflex and epic fortitude. Now think about this for a moment : you get +5 wisdom from being dopple, and you spent ALOT of starting stats point into wisdom but ended up only taking Great Wisdom V. If you think that end wisdom is enough for you then why not move around the starting points a little and add more to charisma, every 2 pts of charisma u get +1 to all saves. may be you can work around it to get more feats and end up having the same or may be better wisdom scores at the end?

Not only that you get Free heavy armor feats, i know there is an awesome druid BUR armor that is a fullplate.
Im saying is that paladin offers a lot more than a level of ranger, and staying good aligned really isn't an issue at all.

[phalthallus]

A druid won't be wearing full plate most of the time though, due to the recent changes giving druids crazy AC when wearing light armor. I suppose you could, but it's hard to give up 140+ AC, and go down to like 115, just for some added spell slots and damage reduction. And druids go through their epics often enough that more spell slots is rarely a major problem.

Still, I would consider figuring out a way to take Bard instead of either, because UMD can be so incredibly handy for a druid in the Hells. You don't have to worry about others casting Mords on something, you can have your own personal BBoD following you around and getting the attention of advespas and other foul creatures, and when a boss locks on to you and kills you...repeatedly....again and again....and won't leave you alone...you have GS. Or just use GS to cast healing circles on your front line tanks w/o worry of getting knocked around.

Just something else to consider. Your saves will most definitely take a hit, but it's just a matter of choice, and deciding which is more useful to you and your playstyle.

[Yomi]

If one does a bard level instead of ranger, you end up with Nature's Forceful Spirit (barring exact feat choices, the stats look basically the same minus racial differences). Paladin would increase saves, but you can still get them all above 60 if you need (depends on race and feats of course).

I love being able to read scrolls on my druid. Mindblank in Thids, Stone to Flesh in Desert/DB/Stygia, GS in wherever, Black Blade, etc.

Edit: link fixed, copy not working very well so keeps pasting old link.

[johannhowitzer]

That link leads to a Slinger build...

Bard seems quite a serious consideration. Tumble already exists in the build, but UMD is powerful and the only thing I'd have to give up is 4 reflexes or 2 AC. Only problem is I've already reached level 27, so I'd have to delevel seven times to remove the Ranger level I already took...

Oh, and I'd have to increase INT by 2 or drop Craft Armor if I want to put UMD in there.

[Yomi]

fixed -- ctrl-c just wasn't copying the link so pasted old one.

Wearing light armor you'll have an AC over 130, so I don't think the loss of some Craft Armor will kill you. At least mine's at 133 using UR light armor and UR shield, so not the 140-150 some people talk about having all the time, but still plenty high (no craft armor, no armor skin, 12 base dex).

I did mine with 14 INT and managed to get Concentration, Heal, Parry, Spellcraft, Discipline (43), Tumble (40), UMD (40), and Animal Empathy.

[johannhowitzer]

Dropped Ranger level for Bard, losing 2 reflex and 1 AC, but gaining UMD and 1 fort. Liked Tyran's level progression better. I did, however, disagree with his taking LSF evocation - the feat slot is too precious IMO to spend on 2 more DC in such an infrequently-used school. Firestorm seems to me the only useful high-level Evocation spell, in fact. Better to use it for more saves or perhaps Armor Skin.

Quite a good tradeoff, thanks for the suggestion! I deleveled eight times and releveled to 20, taking the Monk level there. A nice Tumble dump and will see me hit 88 AC at level 27 rather than 84... but it hurt to delevel that much, and I had to re-gear and learn how to play the druid all over again, I was used to being level 27. Going to bed instead, I'll find a good party tomorrow, just too depressing tonight.

One little extra benefit to this change in the build: Monk AC comes at level 32 instead of 40, which means a much easier time in Manatakloss and the Abyss!