Post by shaengarne on Mar 24, 2008 18:48:26 GMT
Most comments about the Satyr subrace are obsolete as I decided to go with kobolds, which nets me one feat and +1 ab at the cost of a larger gear selection (can't use tower shields). The pro's and con's still remain the same, as +1 to ab doesn't really get it out of the gutter. Many thanks to kobra who pointed out the advantages of kobolds without referring to their appearance
This is an attempt at a dex based slinger using satyr (open subrace) I made some time ago. As I haven't played much during the last few months, this one and all my other chars are low level so I don't know whether you can play this one as a dex-tank or a support character near mages/archers; probably one of the more experienced players can tell from the numbers at the bottom of the post. Not much else to say before the build layout because I'll mention most goals in the pro's and con's. You can find information about the slinger quasi here.
Race, Subrace
Human - Kobold
Abilities
Str. 8
Dex. 16+2
Con. 14
Int. 14
Wis. 15
Cha. 8
All free stat points go into dex.
Domains
Strength (slinger requirement)
Healing (works with cure spells which get a nice boost as you got some points in heal anyway)
Pre-epic feats (in oder)
1. Blooded
1. Bullheaded (Human bonus)
3. Toughness
6. Point Blank Shot
9. Rapid Shot
12. WF: Sling
15. Zen Archery
15. Wep. Spec.: Sling (Divine Slinger bonus)
18. Blind Fight
Epic Feats (in order)
21. SF: Enchant
23. GSF: Enchant (Cleric bonus)
24. Armor skin
26. Great Wis I (Cleric bonus)
27. EWF: Sling
29. Great Wis II (Cleric bonus)
30. Epic Prowess
32. Great Wis III (Cleric bonus)
33. ESF: Discipline/Parry
35. Great Wis IV (Cleric bonus)
36. Epic Will
38. ESF: Enchant (Cleric bonus)
39. Great Fort
Legendary Feats (in order)
41. SF, GSF, ESF: Abjuration (from the book)
42. LSA: Tumble
45. LSA: Discipline
48. LSF: Enchant
51. Legendary Fort
54. Legendary Weapon Focus
57. Great Dex III
60. Great Dex IV
Skills
Parry 63
Heal 63
Craft Armor 63
Tumble 60 (after LSA: Tumble)
Discipline 63 (after LSA: Discipline)
Saves
Fort: 12 + 10 + 5 + 20 + 8 + 9 = 64
Reflex: 6 + 10 + 5 + 20 + 21 = 62
Will: 12 + 10 + 5 +20 + 10 + 5 = 62
Attack Bonus
7 (with rapid shot 8) attacks at 15 (pre-epic) + 10 (epic) + 15 (legendary with divine power) + 20 (buffs, can be reached with self-buffs only) + 7 (feats) + 21 (dex mod) + 1 (small stature) = 89 (+1 within point blank range, -2 with rapid shot)
Armor class
10 (base) + 19 (1 [padded armor] + 16 [UR ac] + 2 [girding]) + 20 (2 [large shield] + 18 [magic vestment]) + 16 (UR amulet) + 16 (from shield of faith) + 20 (dodge) + 12 (tumble) + 2 (armor skin) + 21 (dex mod) + 1 (small stature) + 1/2 (craft armor) = 138/139
Pro's
- Pure Slinger (was the main goal)
- Saves above 60 (another goal)
- acceptable disc and parry (for defensive reasons because you get no other crit immunity)
- good heal (for the heal bullets and cure spells as well as healing circle)
- max tumble and craft armor (the ac is needed)
- acceptable ac for a dexer (I think)
- spells (the following quotes are the main reason for abjuration over transmutation for IoF)
- GMW +16 for you, +14 for everyone else (second reason to go abjuration...you can hand out +14 which isn't bad at all)
- Girding and Aegis (everyone likes girding, aegis might not be as desired as IoF but is better for a player with less than optimal gear like me)
Con's
- 89 ab (This is the "dump stat" in this build. Dex is very low and while ac can be pushed with spells that have a much greater effect than some great dex feats, ab can't. The only possibility to get this one any higher would be a higher starting stat, more great dex feats or another 60 skill points for craft weapon.)
- 40% melee concealment from entropic shield (Thats lower than what other dexers get; and you can't afford enough points in hide (actually you can't afford any points in hide) to benefit from a mass camouflage. LSF: Illusion could bring this up to 50%, but ll feats are rare and I wanted ESF: Abjuration. You get 60% ranged conceal tough and maybe you can get a displacement if you really need it.)
- just about 1000 HP with items (I think this is the absolute minimum to have when you're near the front-lines, but that's just me.)
- no water-breathing or levitating subrace and reliance on buffs therefor mord/breach-protection needed (same problem as a staffmaster)
- no imp. crit.: sling (just didn't had the feats to fit it in, but as there's no keen property on slings and you won't have a fantastic damage on a crit anyways, you can probably get around the loss...it just feels strange not having it) [you could swap imp crit for ESF: Disc/Parry; I haven't yet decided what to chose]
- damage (lots of people complain about it; so far I haven't got enough experience to comment it but I'm looking forward to breach and kd bullets and integrated damage)
Some comments
As you see the build is very feat starved and needs a high intelligence for all the skills. If you want to have a good ac and saves above 60, there's not much left than crappy starting stats and low dex, which leads to low ab. I chose Satyr because it's human base to get both LSA: Disc and LSA: Tumble as well as the +1 skill point per level; Satyr gives a needed feat (SF: Enchant) as well and is medium stature (tower shields), it even gives a speed boost on to of that. The drawbacks are stats which just don't fit a cleric (-1 wis, +1 cha). I didn't find a secret or UR subrace which would give me all the benefits Satyr does and none of the drawbacks. You could build it with erinyes, as this one would give you two useful free feats (Satyr gives one), can be based on human and you'd get great stats (really, erinyes' stats must've been chosen with slinger in mind
Well, nothing left to write (or I've forgotten everything else); I'm looking forward to see some feedback or discussion (not about the slinger damage, there are more than enough threads for that topic).
shaengarne
edits:
- corrected ac, as magic vestments and girding don't stack
- modified for kobold (+1 ab, +1 feat, but no tower shields, ac remains the same)
This is an attempt at a dex based slinger using satyr (open subrace) I made some time ago. As I haven't played much during the last few months, this one and all my other chars are low level so I don't know whether you can play this one as a dex-tank or a support character near mages/archers; probably one of the more experienced players can tell from the numbers at the bottom of the post. Not much else to say before the build layout because I'll mention most goals in the pro's and con's. You can find information about the slinger quasi here.
Race, Subrace
Human - Kobold
Abilities
Str. 8
Dex. 16+2
Con. 14
Int. 14
Wis. 15
Cha. 8
All free stat points go into dex.
Domains
Strength (slinger requirement)
Healing (works with cure spells which get a nice boost as you got some points in heal anyway)
Pre-epic feats (in oder)
1. Blooded
1. Bullheaded (Human bonus)
3. Toughness
6. Point Blank Shot
9. Rapid Shot
12. WF: Sling
15. Zen Archery
15. Wep. Spec.: Sling (Divine Slinger bonus)
18. Blind Fight
Epic Feats (in order)
21. SF: Enchant
23. GSF: Enchant (Cleric bonus)
24. Armor skin
26. Great Wis I (Cleric bonus)
27. EWF: Sling
29. Great Wis II (Cleric bonus)
30. Epic Prowess
32. Great Wis III (Cleric bonus)
33. ESF: Discipline/Parry
35. Great Wis IV (Cleric bonus)
36. Epic Will
38. ESF: Enchant (Cleric bonus)
39. Great Fort
Legendary Feats (in order)
41. SF, GSF, ESF: Abjuration (from the book)
42. LSA: Tumble
45. LSA: Discipline
48. LSF: Enchant
51. Legendary Fort
54. Legendary Weapon Focus
57. Great Dex III
60. Great Dex IV
Skills
Parry 63
Heal 63
Craft Armor 63
Tumble 60 (after LSA: Tumble)
Discipline 63 (after LSA: Discipline)
Saves
Fort: 12 + 10 + 5 + 20 + 8 + 9 = 64
Reflex: 6 + 10 + 5 + 20 + 21 = 62
Will: 12 + 10 + 5 +20 + 10 + 5 = 62
Attack Bonus
7 (with rapid shot 8) attacks at 15 (pre-epic) + 10 (epic) + 15 (legendary with divine power) + 20 (buffs, can be reached with self-buffs only) + 7 (feats) + 21 (dex mod) + 1 (small stature) = 89 (+1 within point blank range, -2 with rapid shot)
Armor class
10 (base) + 19 (1 [padded armor] + 16 [UR ac] + 2 [girding]) + 20 (2 [large shield] + 18 [magic vestment]) + 16 (UR amulet) + 16 (from shield of faith) + 20 (dodge) + 12 (tumble) + 2 (armor skin) + 21 (dex mod) + 1 (small stature) + 1/2 (craft armor) = 138/139
Pro's
- Pure Slinger (was the main goal)
- Saves above 60 (another goal)
- acceptable disc and parry (for defensive reasons because you get no other crit immunity)
- good heal (for the heal bullets and cure spells as well as healing circle)
- max tumble and craft armor (the ac is needed)
- acceptable ac for a dexer (I think)
- spells (the following quotes are the main reason for abjuration over transmutation for IoF)
Shield of Faith
- Grants +(1 + (CL / 5)) Deflection AC, +1 per Abjuration focus, reaching +17 at CL60 with LSF Abjuration.
- At CL41, grants immunity to the Word of Faith spell.
- Grants +(1 + (CL / 5)) Deflection AC, +1 per Abjuration focus, reaching +17 at CL60 with LSF Abjuration.
- At CL41, grants immunity to the Word of Faith spell.
Resist Elements
- At CL21, grants DR (4 + (Abjuration foci * 4))/- against all elemental damage, with no limit.
- At CL21, grants DR (4 + (Abjuration foci * 4))/- against all elemental damage, with no limit.
Magic Vestment
- Grants a +(CL / 3) enhancement bonus to the targeted armor or shield, to a maximum of +10.
- At CL41, grants +(CL / 4) enhancement bonus to medium armor, heavy armor, and shields, +1 per Abjuration focus, reaching +19 at CL60 with LSF Abjuration.
- Grants a +(CL / 3) enhancement bonus to the targeted armor or shield, to a maximum of +10.
- At CL41, grants +(CL / 4) enhancement bonus to medium armor, heavy armor, and shields, +1 per Abjuration focus, reaching +19 at CL60 with LSF Abjuration.
- GMW +16 for you, +14 for everyone else (second reason to go abjuration...you can hand out +14 which isn't bad at all)
- Girding and Aegis (everyone likes girding, aegis might not be as desired as IoF but is better for a player with less than optimal gear like me)
Con's
- 89 ab (This is the "dump stat" in this build. Dex is very low and while ac can be pushed with spells that have a much greater effect than some great dex feats, ab can't. The only possibility to get this one any higher would be a higher starting stat, more great dex feats or another 60 skill points for craft weapon.)
- 40% melee concealment from entropic shield (Thats lower than what other dexers get; and you can't afford enough points in hide (actually you can't afford any points in hide) to benefit from a mass camouflage. LSF: Illusion could bring this up to 50%, but ll feats are rare and I wanted ESF: Abjuration. You get 60% ranged conceal tough and maybe you can get a displacement if you really need it.)
- just about 1000 HP with items (I think this is the absolute minimum to have when you're near the front-lines, but that's just me.)
- no water-breathing or levitating subrace and reliance on buffs therefor mord/breach-protection needed (same problem as a staffmaster)
- no imp. crit.: sling (just didn't had the feats to fit it in, but as there's no keen property on slings and you won't have a fantastic damage on a crit anyways, you can probably get around the loss...it just feels strange not having it) [you could swap imp crit for ESF: Disc/Parry; I haven't yet decided what to chose]
- damage (lots of people complain about it; so far I haven't got enough experience to comment it but I'm looking forward to breach and kd bullets and integrated damage)
Some comments
As you see the build is very feat starved and needs a high intelligence for all the skills. If you want to have a good ac and saves above 60, there's not much left than crappy starting stats and low dex, which leads to low ab. I chose Satyr because it's human base to get both LSA: Disc and LSA: Tumble as well as the +1 skill point per level; Satyr gives a needed feat (SF: Enchant) as well and is medium stature (tower shields), it even gives a speed boost on to of that. The drawbacks are stats which just don't fit a cleric (-1 wis, +1 cha). I didn't find a secret or UR subrace which would give me all the benefits Satyr does and none of the drawbacks. You could build it with erinyes, as this one would give you two useful free feats (Satyr gives one), can be based on human and you'd get great stats (really, erinyes' stats must've been chosen with slinger in mind
Well, nothing left to write (or I've forgotten everything else); I'm looking forward to see some feedback or discussion (not about the slinger damage, there are more than enough threads for that topic).
shaengarne
edits:
- corrected ac, as magic vestments and girding don't stack
- modified for kobold (+1 ab, +1 feat, but no tower shields, ac remains the same)