Barbarian build question

[terroken]

Are the extra 2 atks that a shapestrong barb gets with double weapons activated by turning Shapestrong and relogging.

I have tested in test arena and only get 4 regular atks and 2 off hand with no extra dbl atks, I think there are supposed to be 2.

30 Barb with all dual weilding feats - Dire Mace

[FunkySwerve]

No. You just need to have a shapestrong token. Are you large sized?
Funky

[phalthallus]

In my testing, you don't even need the shapestrong token, unless you want to have a shield in your off-hand. Is that correct Funky? Anyone would get two add'l attacks SO LONG as they have all of the feats (ambi/twf/improved twf) and no shield, right? At least that's what happened with my test grimlock.

However, the character sheet won't show this - you have to look at the logs.

[Yomi]

Interestingly I had the same question and decided to go check it out. Mainly because I was running around in shapestrong form and was getting very fed up with the large size -- not being able to get through some doors, getting stuck on things, and confusing the path algorithms especially during lag. The answer seemed to be that it doesn't matter. Once in shapestrong form, then log out and back in, I can equip the dire mace plus shield, then end shapestrong (and re-equip armor if I don't want to look naked) and I get the same combat log results.

My reading of the class ability board would indicate that you're only going to get 7 attacks and no off-hand attacks as a shapestrong barb using a double weapon such as dire mace. The advantage a shapestrong barb has is that even using a shield it gets to keep the 7 attacks instead of reverting back to 5. Only a medium size create with dual weapon feats and not using a shield would get 9.

Tested on practice dummies (caveat lector) with a level 45 barb 30 using store weapons, with no dual weapon feats, dwarf base (medium size):

Shapestrong using dire mace plus shield:
55 / 50 / 45 / 40 / 55 / 50 / 45 [7 attacks]

Shapestrong using dire mace (one handed) and no shield:
51 / 46 / 41 / 36 / 55 / 50 / 45 [same 7 attacks but with dualing penalty applied]

Shapestrong using warhammer (no focuses in warhammer):
52 / 47 / 42 / 37 / 52 [5 attacks at two less ab than sheet]

Non shapestrong using warhammer:
54 / 49 / 44 / 39 / 54 [same 5 attacks but at listed ab]

non shapestrong using dire mace (two handed):
53 / 48 / 43 / 38 / 57 / 52 / 47 / oh: 49 [8 attacks]

One thing I do note is that when I am under the shapestrong effect (whether actually large sized or not), all my attacks show in the combat log as two less than the character sheet, while sheet and log are identical in non-shapestrong form. I'm not clear on why I lose two ab when in shapestrong form even when using a single handed weapon such as a warhammer. Of course I cannot directly compare dire mace results since they are two handed vs. one-handed. But the only difference here is shapestrong vs. not and two ab goes away.


I think when wielding a double weapon assuming 4 base attacks plus haste:

Large size non-shapestrong barb with shield? 5 attacks.
Large size non-shapestrong barb without shield? 7 attacks.
Large size shapestrong barb? 7 attacks regardless of shield.
Medium size without ITWF feat? 8 attacks and shield not possible.
Medium size ITWF feat? 9 attacks and shield not possible.

[phalthallus]

Wow, that's really interesting. I don't have a barb at all, so I couldn't test as deeply as you did Yomi. That's a lot of useful information, and probably will have a bearing on my barb build that I was planning.

[terroken]

Hmm just wish there was a way to make up for the hit you take on ac with no shield, I would rearrange my build for no shapestrong and take more lvls in something else. Hmm maybe some self conceal. hmmmmmmmm let me get workin lol.

[FunkySwerve]

You don't have to be large size to get the added attacks, just have the ability to go shapestrong, per the board. Large critters of course only get 7 per instead of 9 per (they don't get the offhand attacks). The advantage the barb gets is that, when he is large, he can equip a shield or a weapon in the offhand and NOT lose the bonus 2 attacks, which all other large creatures DO lose. Put another way:

When you equip a double weapon (or xbow) a script fires that addes a 'bonus attacks' effect. If you unequip the weapon the effect is removed. If you equip something offhand the effect is removed UNLESS you have a shapestrong rage token in your inventory.
Funky

[Yomi]

I envy your ability to say the same thing in two clear sentences as I write in 3 muddled paragraphs. Thanks for the succinct and definitive answer.