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Post by bort on Jul 25, 2007 22:51:56 GMT
Hey Ultimabob, 14 Bard/14 Rdd/12 Pm certainly looks good off the top of my head: You'd get +2 boneskin AC and an RDD bonus epic feat. I'll run it through the test chamber and see how it looks some time soon, along with some other tweaks. Giving up singing is certainly a possibility, although I specifically wanted to be able to curse with my personal version of the build, even if my curse has a much lesser effect than that of a 'real' bard. I just noticed a goof in my original post - with RDD ability increases, the build ends with 16 CHA, even though the highest level spell you'll be casting is probably Warcry, which is a level 4 spell and therefore requires only 14 CHA or 15 CHA to cast extended. Yay, more starting ability points! * Energy buffer is a level 6 spell, so it may be worth keeping 16 CHA (after RDD mod) for that. As for Stinger, it's certainly possible, although the -2 CHA isn't exactly helpful. The same goes for One-eyed and Battleranger (which also has an -2 INT). Dragonblooded is indeed a pretty good UR sub for this (cheers Kobra , though you don't get large size and should therefore select your weapon accordingly. You're also limited to half-elf base, so only one feat at char-gen. Thanks for the responses everyone, tweaked build coming soon.
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Post by bort on Jul 26, 2007 16:23:13 GMT
Tweaked build posted! (see first post in thread).
Changed to gnome base for increased constitution and ac at the cost of a feat and some skill points. Raised starting intelligence to allow 'maxing' of all listed skills except for lore (see build for list). Added 4 more Rdd levels for a bonus feat and 2 more Pm levels for +2 ac at the cost of 6 Bard levels and therefore the ability to take Lasting Insipiration as a feat (requires 20 Bard). Added Epic Will, resulting in more hell-worthy final saves. Adjusted starting STR and CHA numbers. AB is 2 points lower as a result and Energy Buffer is no longer accessible (decided I wouldn't miss it that much).
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Post by ultimabob on Jul 27, 2007 4:10:56 GMT
I would get exotic and dire mace for sure IMO. The x3 crit and crit range is really critical for doing real damage.
The small staure bonus is entirely overwritten by the size change so I'm not sure I'd bother with gnome. Malephant is a good choice though as it is large so you can use the double weapons with shield. Large size is -1 / -1 btw Huge is -2/-2
Some vets have posted that Taunt can be useful in Hells. I'd think about maxing it with the free ESF taunt feat if that is true.
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Post by bort on Jul 27, 2007 8:30:12 GMT
If you don't want to sing, swap Curse Song for Weapon Proficiency Exotic and Lingering Song for something else as well. Alternatively, you could gain a feat by going human base instead of gnome, which would allow you to retain Curse Song and still take Weapon Proficiency Exotic. Small Stature is a feat and should (afaik) still apply regardless of appearance size changes (in this case, it should counter the -1 ac). Taunt's already on the list of skills to max
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Post by ultimabob on Jul 27, 2007 9:25:09 GMT
small staure used to work that way afaik but somewhere along the line a patch changed this I think. I tested it recently with a halfling druid and elf druid - both in bear form. No difference in AB.
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Post by bort on Jul 27, 2007 12:32:16 GMT
In that case I think I'll rework it with human base and with Dire Mace instead of Qtrstaff. Either the AB/Saves or Hitpoints will have to take a hit to fit in the feats without losing Curse Song (which I don't want to lose) so I think it'll be hitpoints. I'll juggle starting stats and feats, check the calculations and see how it looks. Thanks again ultimabob
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Post by bort on Jul 28, 2007 13:36:20 GMT
Big update! Changed back to human base race for extra skill points and feat. Juggled starting stats and feats.
et voila;
Increased saves! Dire mace for more frequent/nastier criticals! ;D
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Post by bort on Jul 29, 2007 14:45:32 GMT
Minor update (forgot about hells loot). Final AC should be up to 158. Also added that Maelephant gets Heavy Armor proficiency for free (was about to try and squeeze it into build).
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Post by chainlink on Jul 29, 2007 19:14:52 GMT
Your final crit range with a dire mace will be 12-20 not 10-20 (as stated in your first post) as only a build with 7 WM levels can get an 18-20 weapon to 10-20.
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Post by bort on Jul 29, 2007 21:43:16 GMT
Your final crit range with a dire mace will be 12-20 not 10-20 (as stated in your first post) as only a build with 7 WM levels can get an 18-20 weapon to 10-20. Ah, never could get my head round the way keen works, thanks. -Bort
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Post by Kainan on Aug 11, 2007 22:48:52 GMT
i havent got my hand on any UR/BUR subbys so is there possible to make this with a free sub or?
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Post by bort on Aug 11, 2007 23:18:43 GMT
i havent got my hand on any UR/BUR subbys so is there possible to make this with a free sub or? I'll have a think and get back to you.
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Post by bort on Aug 12, 2007 10:25:17 GMT
i havent got my hand on any UR/BUR subbys so is there possible to make this with a free sub or? Race/Subrace:Race: Human Subrace: PT - Earth Genasi (STR +2, CON +2, WIS -2, CHA -2, 25% immune bludgeoning, 25% vulnerable acid, speaks Terran) Alignment:Neutral Evil Skills:*** 8 lore! RDD prereq.*** Discipline (bard/rdd levels) Concentration (all levels) Tumble (bard levels) Perform (bard levels) UMD (bard levels) Level progression:preepic: 8 bard/8 rdd/4 bard epic: 6 rdd/12 pm/2 bard Starting stats (subrace mods):STR 14 (16) DEX 14 CON 14 (16) WIS 8 (6) INT 12 CHA 15 (13) Feats/Stats (1 to 40):Level | Class (lvl) | Stats | Feats | Free Stuff | 1 | Bard (1) | | Luck of Heroes, Blind Fight | Bard Song | 2 | Bard (2) | | | | 3 | Bard (3) | | Curse Song | | 4 | Bard (4) | +1 STR (17) | | | 5 | Bard (5) | | | | 6 | Bard (6) | | Toughness | | 7 | Bard (7) | | | | 8 | Bard (8) | +1 STR (18) | | | 9 | Rdd (1) | | Expertise | +1 Draconic Armor AC | 10 | Rdd (2) | | | +2 Rdd STR increase (20) | 11 | Rdd (3) | | | | 12 | Rdd (4) | +1 STR (21) | Improved Expertise | +2 Rdd STR increase (23) | 13 | Rdd (5) | | | +1 Draconic Armor AC | 14 | Rdd (6) | | | | 15 | Rdd (7) | | Weapon Proficiency Exotic | +2 Rdd CON increase (18) | 16 | Rdd (8) | +1 STR (24) | | +1 Draconic Armor AC | 17 | Bard (9) | | | | 18 | Bard (10) | | Extend Spell | | 19 | Bard (11) | | | | 20 | Bard (12) | +1 STR (25) | | | 21 | Rdd (9) | | Armor Skin | +2 Rdd INT increase (14) | 22 | Rdd (10) | | | +4 Rdd STR increase (29) +2 Rdd CHA increase (15) Fire Immune +1 Draconic Armor AC | 23 | Rdd (11) | | | | 24 | Rdd (12) | +1 STR (30) | Weapon Focus Bastard Sword | | 25 | Rdd (13) | | | | 26 | Rdd (14) | | Epic Prowess | | 27 | Pm (1) | | Epic Weapon Focus Bastard Sword | +2 Bone Skin AC | 28 | Pm (2) | +1 STR (31) | | | 29 | Pm (3) | | | | 30 | Pm (4) | | Improved Critical Bastard Sword | +2 Bone Skin AC | 31 | Pm (5) | | | | 32 | Pm (6) | +1 STR (32) | | | 33 | Pm (7) | | Lightning Reflexes | Stun Immune | 34 | Pm (8) | | | +2 Bone Skin AC | 35 | Pm (9) | | | | 36 | Pm (10) | +1 STR (33) | Epic Will | Crit Immune | 37 | Pm (11) | | | | 38 | Pm (12) | | | +2 Bone Skin AC | 39 | Bard (13) | | Lingering Song | | 40 | Bard (14) | +1 STR (34) | | |
Find and Read a certain book at level 41 for Epic Spell Focus Enchantment (+3 to your gmw). Naked stats at 40:STR 34 DEX 14 CON 18 WIS 6 INT 14 CHA 15 Feats/Stats (41 to 60):Level | Stats | Feats | 42 | +1 STR (35) | Legendary Luck (+3 all saves) | 44 | +1 STR (36) | | 45 | | Legendary Reflexes (+7 Reflex) | 46 | +1 STR (37) | | 48 | +1 STR (38) | Legendary Weapon Focus Dire Mace (+3 ab) | 50 | +1 STR (39) | | 51 | | Legendary Spell Focus Enchantment (+1 to gmw) | 52 | +1 STR (40) | | 54 | +1 STR (41) | Great Fortitude | 56 | +1 STR (42) | | 57 | | Great STR I (43) | 58 | +1 STR (44) | | 60 | +1 STR (45) | Great STR II (46) |
Naked stats at 60 (and with gear):STR 46 (58) DEX 14 (26) CON 18 (30) WIS 6 (18) INT 14 CHA 15 Comments:This version of the build differs from the original in the following ways: Focused in Bastard Sword instead of Dire Mace (because you don't get large size). Dropped Taunt (no free Epic Skill Focus in Taunt and had to drop one skill because of lower starting INT). Gained a point of AC for not being large size! Lower Fort save by 1 point (lower starting CON). Lower Will save by 1 point (lower starting WIS). Lower Hitpoints (from having less CON). AB is 2 lower (from lower starting STR). Lower final CHA score, which actually doesn't affect the build as the orginal build can't cast level 6 spells either (too few bard levels). No heavy armor proficiency. This will probably be a pain in lower levels, but I've been wearing medium armor since I got my Ssithrak tag and doing very well, so it certainly won't kill the build. Another option for this version of the build would be to change the starting stats to: STR 14 (16) DEX 14 CON 12 (14) WIS 8 (6) INT 14 CHA 15 (13) This would result in 60 less hitpoints and -1 to Fortitude save, but enough skill points to get Taunt.
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Post by Raj on Aug 12, 2007 17:18:04 GMT
Actually plain human is better than derrzagon, as aiming for high charisma with a -4 cha race is expensive. plain human can start with 14 str 14 dex 14 con 14 int 8 wis 14 cha, that's +1 to str/cha, +2 to wis and a bonus skill. You lose blindfight and gain another free freat.
earth genasi can be a valid free alternative, just swap the points u'd put into str to cha, and you gain a more useful 60hp vs 1 will save; 25% to bludge is great, the acid vulnerability isn't too high so it's still playable. Dragon blood should mitigate it too when u'll get it.
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Post by bort on Aug 12, 2007 18:06:27 GMT
Thanks Raj, I've updated it. I can add a Dragonblooded option too if anyone's interested.
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