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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jun 2, 2006 17:52:14 GMT
You don't get the monk AC bonus if you use anything but robes/no shield. lol I always forget that, but anyways it works out in the end so u can switch between robe and gear depending on the area. Heavy magic area's I always figured armor and shield worked better for more resist options. For heavy melee I would go robe and use my spell to protect me and now this is more fact, I just wish funky made druid robes? Saves: First one is pre-epic bonus, second one is epic bonus, third number is legendary bonus: Fort: 12 + 10 + 5 + con bonus + items = ? Reflex: 6 + 10 + 5 + dex bonus + items = ? Will: 12 + 10 + 5 + wis bonus + items = ? No idea what items you'll get. As you got evasion and a very high wis, you could focus on items with a high fort bonus. mal So lvl 60 saves should look like this with +6universal gear (normal) fort 12 + 10 + 5 + 8 + 6 = 41 reflex 6 + 10 + 5 + 5 + 6 = 31 will 12 + 10 + 5 + 24(25) + 6 = 57(58) Question on saves: 1. What stacks with items? Universal stacks with Universal? Does Universal stack with Relfex, Fort, and Will items?
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Post by mishimayukio on Jun 2, 2006 20:59:17 GMT
You might want to try and squeeze dragonshape in there for purely defensive purposes. With the illusion epic spell, my 38 druid/1 fighter/1 monk at level 40 with 50 wisdom is at 135 AC in dragon form after cleric armor buff, 133 without. With another 14 wisdom from LLs, and +3 from the prenumbrium plate when I get the tag, I'll max out at 145 AC. AB isn't bad either at 62 with +14 GMW and epic prowess. Along with the AC you get phenomenal saves, including reflex for when you are getting hammered by ssithrak meteors. One major downside though is you lose all spellslots gained by items when you shift, making it sort of a last resort.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jun 3, 2006 2:06:54 GMT
I'm thinking about 37Druid, 2Rogue, 1Fighter
Problem is I know I can get Open Lock, Disable Trap, and Search all to 40, plus rogue items I can wear to boost it all as I collect them. Would it be worth it, for that sole reason. You'd lose one epic, I choose Abjuration, the 20SR drop is nice, but its only for dragon bosses really. With funky boosting the SR resistance I can see a need for it, but its the only thing I'd want to drop. Necromancy epic is needed for some of my spells, Evocation is a must since its most my offensive spells. Conjuration is for bombardment, but with high reflex saves anyway in most areas. So I didn't feel I needed epic focus. Dragon form like mish said is only for defensive reasons when it comes to Druid, since you lose all your spell slots, if this ever changes that would be a huge change in a build, but until then I'm looking for a druid caster without it, because thats one extra feat I can use for something else. You still get evasion with 2 rogue levels. The monk ac bonus is only good for robe only no shield and I don't want to play a druid like that, so I'd rather have heavy armor and shield. HP should still be around 900@60. I don't know whats best no more. I'd like those rogue skills though if they help in some LL area's? Doesn't have to be every single one, but I'd like to be able to open some chest, disable some traps, and search is always nice to have?
Need some help here, im stuck in thought.
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Post by mishimayukio on Jun 3, 2006 3:38:54 GMT
I forgot to mention the unlimited use/day breath weapons on the 3 dragon shapes. Sure your DC will be 4 lower than a shifter, but with 58 caster levels, thats still DC 54. The fire breath weapon does massive damage to anything in ssithraks, as well as devariels and maze guardians. The lightning BW is good for illithids and living sands, as well as a few other desert creatures, and the acid BW is not as useful, but still useful on say screelings. One of the most important things about breath weapons is that spell resistance does not affect them. At low LLs, you are going to be barely affecting anything in LL areas, and your spell DCs/damage dice will be low. When I start leveling Shirou I'm betting I'm going to be in dragon form most of the time until I start getting decent penetration.
-EDIT- BW does not break loot!!!!!!
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Post by DragonChyld on Jun 3, 2006 4:56:08 GMT
Mish does the same apply for the RDD BW?
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jun 3, 2006 7:34:13 GMT
I updated the build once again to reflect what mish spoke about and to also just include dragon form for certain area's. I miss dragon form anyways, and I want it in my final build. Dragon Angel II will arise...
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Post by sabregirl on Jun 3, 2006 14:58:40 GMT
Mish does the same apply for the RDD BW? RDD breath weapon breaks loot . . . and you only get to use it every few minutes, doesn't affect as large of an area . . . in short . . . not anywhere near as nice as dragon form breath . . . but hey RDDs are only HALF dragons I think you'll miss the 4DC but still a very nice form and well worth having as a backup. -S
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jun 3, 2006 17:48:34 GMT
Mish does the same apply for the RDD BW? RDD breath weapon breaks loot . . . and you only get to use it every few minutes, doesn't affect as large of an area . . . in short . . . not anywhere near as nice as dragon form breath . . . but hey RDDs are only HALF dragons I think you'll miss the 4DC but still a very nice form and well worth having as a backup. -S But they also get two more unlimited abilities that help along the side. So it all evens out. I updated the build. This is my final druid. I'm done updating I don't see the druid class getting any better then this build, post to prove me wrong. * I also added a tactic and spells area for the newbs. I think that will come in very handy if your confused how to play the druid class. If anyone has any questions, pls msg me.
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Post by lusitania on Aug 13, 2006 8:28:47 GMT
I recently reached 60 with my druid, and I have a few comments about the build: I'd pick Thri-Kreen over Aasimar if you're taking a secret subclass. Thri-Kreen compared to Aasimar: +2 dex, -2 int, -4 cha. The extra feats and resist on Aasimar really don't matter for a druid, but Thri-Kreen gives you armor skin, deflect arrows, and walks on quicksand (among other things). Wearing an extra ring in the desert can be handy. "Thri-Kreen" (secret subrace) - requires Human (changes Appearance) DEX +2, INT -2, WIS +2, CHA -2, increased base movement rate - fast, free feat: Alertness, free feat: Ambidexterity, free feat: Armor Skin, free feat: Deflect Arrows, free feat: Immunity to Sleep, able to walk on quicksand
My starting stats were Str: 8 Dex: 10 Con: 16 Int: 10 Wis: 20 Cha: 6 So a little weaker, but that hardly matters. 60 more HP and one more point for reflex saves is always nice. I didn't have the spare points for appraise or many to spare for craft armor (Though I picked craft weapon instead, since thri-kreens don't show their armor), but I had enough to max the important ones.
So when I took my fighter level, I took epic toughness instead of armor skin, as thri-kreens get that armor skin for free.
I picked still spell, but regret it. There's not much reason (I find) to want extra casts of bombardment or harm at the cost of, respectively, earthquake and bombardment, once you get a decent number of extra spellslots. The staff of emrys gives 4 bonus slots to level 6, though, so if you picked maximize, you could have even more, more damaging quillfires, which are the druids dragon killer. This is obviously a matter of taste, however- if you like having 20 memorized harms or fingers of death or something, then go ahead and pick still or silent.
I skipped epic reflexes and two levels of great wisdom so I could take the transmutation feats and get elemental shunt. I still have 60 wisdom after bonuses from equipment, so that's fine with me. I read the book for illusion, and already had epic focus in evocation and necromancy, so that's four epics total. I can't stress enough how great shunt is. At level 60, with this build, your entire party gets 73% immunity to all elemental and sonic damage, which can make you very popular for many, if not all, legendary areas. Team up with a cleric with aegis, and you can laugh off a ridiculous amount of damage even if not everyone in your party has the right combination of rings. I'd certainly pick it over abjuration, considering that earthquake ignores SR, and quillfire ignores SR, has no save, and does ~100 points magical damage per cast. If others in your party care about lowering SR, they probably have mords disjunction anyway and can do it themselves, or you can try your luck with natures balance. Feel free to enlighten me if I'm missing something here. The necromancy and evocation legendary spells are a lot of fun too, but you already include those, so no further comment is necessary.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Sept 30, 2006 16:02:41 GMT
Taking into account all of Mish's advice in the general effective building guidlines thread and the other bits of advice here, would this be considered a good variation: "Fallen Angel" (secret UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement (adds wings) WIS +5, CHA +2, +10 heal, free feat: Divine Might, free feat: Divine Shield, able to walk on quicksand Race: Human (Lawful Nuetral) Book: Abjuration (I've had 3 casters that used the Transmutation book so I'm running a little low on that one) Str: 8 Dex: 8 Con: 16 Int: 10 Wis: 18(23)-(48) Cha: 10 (12) Skill(Class): Animal Empathy(Druid), Concentration(All), Spell craft(Druid), Tumble(Monk), Discipline(Monk/Fighter) [ ] ========================== 01Druid: Spell Penetration, Combat Casting 03Druid: Greater Spell Penetration 06Druid: Spell Focus (Evocation) 09Druid: Spell Focus (Necromancy) 12Druid: Greater Spell Focus (Evocation) 15Druid: Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy) 18Druid: Silent Spell
[[Epic Feats]] ========================== 21Druid: Epic Spell Penetration 24Druid: Improved Combat Casting, Epic Spell Focus (Evocation) 27Druid: Spell Focus (Transmutation) 28Druid: Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy) 30Druid: Greater Spell Focus (Transmutation) 32Druid: Epic Spell Focus (Transmutation) 33Druid: Spell Focus (Conjuration) 36Druid: Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration), Epic Spell Focus (Conjuration) 39Pally: Toughness 40Monk: Evasion
[[Legendary Levels Feats]] ============================== lvl42: LL Spell Penetration lvl45: Epic Reflexes lvl48: Great Wisdom I lvl51: Great Wisdom II lvl54: Great Wisdom III lvl57: Great Wisdom IV lvl60: Great Wisdom V
Also, if I'm figuring this correctly, I could go pure druid without losing any feats. Would that be a better choice than taking the fighter and monk level or is evasion etc. vital here?
---- Updated to reflect: 1. Minor leveling error. 2. Decisions based on Fusa, whodat1, and Lusitania's advice. 3. Experiences with previous versions.
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Post by fusa on Sept 30, 2006 18:03:54 GMT
Paladin would be better than fighter since you could use your charisma modifier to boost the druids low relfex and fortitude saves, if you do might want to increase charisma some, but even starting at 8 +5 to saves is better then nothing.
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Post by whodat1 on Sept 30, 2006 21:38:31 GMT
Heres my druid build currently (pardon the layout, its straight from the sheet I use). I spent a lot of time talking to effective druids trying to figure out what is going to work best for my play style, and put the tougher choices I still need to make near the end of lls so I can hopefully make an informed decision by then.
thri kreen, max wis, 16 con, 12 int, blah blah. Align lawful neutral to make the shifts easy Character Level Class Skill Increases Feat Selection Attribute Increase 1 Druid Animal Empathy 4, Concentration 4, Spellcraft 4 Spell Penetration Greater Spell Penetration 2 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 3 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Toughness 4 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 SHIFT ALIGNMENT TO GOOD Wisdom 5 Paladin Discipline 8, Concentration 1 SHIFT ALIGNMENT TO NEUTRAL 6 Druid Animal Empathy 2, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 2 Spell Focus: Evocation 7 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 8 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 9 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Greater SF: Evocation 10 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 11 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 12 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Spell Focus: Necromancy Wisdom 13 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 14 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 15 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Greater SF: Necromancy 16 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 17 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 18 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Combat Casting 19 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 20 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 21 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Epic Spell Penetration 22 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 23 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 24 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Improved Combat Casting Wisdom 25 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Epic SF: Evocation 26 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 27 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Spell Focus: Transmutation 28 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 29 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Epic SF: Necromancy 30 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Greater SF: Transmutation 31 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 32 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 33 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Epic Reflexes Epic SF: Transmutation 34 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 35 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 36 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Great wis 1 Wisdom 37 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Great wis 2 38 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 39 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Great wis 3 40 Monk 1 Concentration 35 Discipline, 40 Tumble (7 remain) READ CONJURATION or ILLUSION(AC) Wisdom 41 Druid Animal Empathy 2, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 2 42 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Great wis 4 Wisdom 43 Druid Animal Empathy 1, Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 BREAK INTO DM OFFICE - STEAL SECRETS 44 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 45 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Legendary Spell Penetration 46 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 47 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 48 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Empower or Still Spell Wisdom 49 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 50 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 51 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Great Wisdom 5 52 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 53 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 54 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Great Wisdom 6 Wisdom 55 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 56 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 57 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Great Wisdom 7, or legendary necro or evok or dragon shape 58 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Wisdom 59 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 60 Druid Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1 Great Wisdom 8, or legendary necro or evok or dragon shape Wisdom
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Post by lusitania on Oct 1, 2006 0:57:16 GMT
Monk/(fighter or paladin) isn't just getting you evasion, it's getting you tumble and discipline too. So you don't have your armor stripped off so often doing DB, you don't get thrown around doing illithids, you get an AC bonus, and you can run in circles making tumble saves when you want to (which I find is surprisingly often). Also, the extra feat you get with your fighter level has to be chosen from the fighter bonus feats, so toughness isn't an option. That's why I took epic toughness. Armor skin is also an option there for fallen angels- thri-kreens have it naturally. You can go pure druid if you want to. Let's compare: Gains: One more general feat. Two extra caster levels. Losses: Free heavy armor proficiency. Bonus to saves from cha modifier, if you go paladin. Bonus 20 hp from epic toughness, if you go fighter. Significantly higher bonuses to tumble and discipline. Evasion (though not a great reflex save to go with it, sadly). Not worth it, in my opinion. Finally, I retract my support of maximize in my earlier post. Healing circle is too useful. Empower is a fine choice, though.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Nov 8, 2006 19:25:47 GMT
Empower is a fine choice, though. After playing around with my druid in the LLs, I've dumped empowered as it doesn't seem to offer much of anything to me.
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Post by Ironfang on Nov 8, 2006 19:38:04 GMT
Ya I kinda wish I could dump empowered for silent. Silent gives me a whole lot of Harms, nice in the Beholders. Also I could double up on Bombards if there was somewhere that really needed them over EQ.
I will mem empowered Call lightning and Flame Strikes but overall I think it was a bad feat choice. Not unlike my Dragon Shape that I just had to take "Cause its cool to be a Dragon!"
Still pretty happy with the toon and its a not a gamebreaker, not every toon needs to be the same or completley uber to have fun or even do well on HG.
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