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Post by dodrudon on Aug 6, 2007 4:45:54 GMT
Updated the build with Bort's suggestions. Dropped a Great Dex for Blindfight (can't believe I forgot that!), put Con and Int at an initial 16 (Con drops to 14 after login), and swapped out Improved Combat Casting for two Great Intelligences. This still gets you three epic spells, the same final Dexterity (32 at level 40 unbuffed, 58 at level 60 buffed), and 60 more hitpoints, at the cost of Improved Combat Casting.
I couldn't fit Toughness into the build =/
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Post by Yomi on Aug 6, 2007 7:26:50 GMT
I just tested my wiz 36 / AA 3 / 1 Monk. She's level 56, has epic prowess but not LWF (haven't played since that change). ab is 79 fully buffed with tensers (claims Fighter bab). At level 60 with final dex of 62 it should go up 5 more from stat bonuses and leg bab. With LWF the buffed ab would be 87. This seems quite a bit lower than bort's calculated 96. Compared to my traditional AA who had 97 unbuffed before demi, that's not so good. I haven't played her recently so can't comment on how that ab works in practice (but 79 seems awfully poor for level 56).
Using standard UR/illithid gear she'll end with 127 AC and 75% conceal. By doing WM instead of monk you'd get 85% conceal but lose 9 AC (at least on mine) and evasion. For Hells it may be the right tradeoff, probably not in standard LL areas.
I chose transmute and divination on mine for wall and eternal return. Transmute definitely -- it's great for this build. Divination not so much any more now that caster bards with the Possum epic are all over the place. If you plan on going to Hells with it a lot, Abjuration would really fit the build well. It seems pretty useful for hells bosses especially.
hp from 14 CON should end a little above 600 without tensers, which is quite weak though not abysmal. A real annoyance if you don't have immunities really well covered. Fortanately vs. a regular AA you get Elemental Shield for 50% fire and cold, endure elements for 9% to all, acid sheath for 19% to acid, and high level Energy Buffer to absorb quite a bit. As for getting hit, I'm sure tougher areas like Pharlans and Hells would change it, but stuff rarely hit me elsewhere with that AC and conceal (and firing a bow you're rarely flat-footed like casters). My main problem was kickback on things like soul devourers, where with 1-2 more attacks a round than a normal AA combined with 2/3 the hp, the hp bar can drop really fast.
For spells, getting 55 so I could use Prescient's Guard was a great moment, as I finally had enough spell slots. Most of the things I used were extended.
It's an interested build. Having Epic Wall really adds value to any hells run vs. a normal AA. As for regular play, the standard AA is a lot easier in that from the moment you log in you're ready to go -- maybe a rest to get the specials like seekers (which the wiz/AA doesn't get at all, so no bosskiller stuff). This one requires a bunch of buffs all the time, which until you're quite high level, always seem to be dropping in the middle of fights. Early on I felt like I spent almost as much time refreshing various buffs as I did shooting stuff, though that's much better in the 50s. Still, imagine a hells run where the mobs break through and trash the back line. Standard AA is rezzed and is pretty much ready to go -- almost full AC, full conceal, full ab. This one is just like a mage -- run somewhere else and start putting on all the buffs so you can be effective.
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Post by bort on Aug 6, 2007 7:46:14 GMT
Updated the calculations in my earlier post (thanks Acaos) and just logged my wiz36 aa3 monk1 to test the AB: mine's at level 55 and has 82 AB with tensers. I didn't take Rapid Shot on mine (stupid!) so that could affect AB i guess. I'll get another 4 AB from LLBAB increases by level 60 and could get another 3 from LWF, which would take the final AB to 88. That's with Aquatic Elf and a Dexterity of 56 (not sure if I had any more Great Dex planned on the build; it's been pretty much retired since I got my cleric a wis arti except for the occassion outing). I can't get my head round how tensers changes AB. At level 55, I'm gaining 10 points of AB from tensers. 5 of that is from the LLBAB increases so some of the other 5 is presumably from maxing out the +20 cap (4 points seeing as I'm using a +16 bow) and presumably that remaining one point has something to do with pre-LL bab? Confused Cheers, Bort
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Post by Acaos on Aug 6, 2007 8:04:42 GMT
Tenser's never affects 'base attack bonus'. That's very poor wording on Bioware's part. Tenser's grants a magical AB bonus sufficient to give you fighter BAB, plus additional attacks, plus (as an HG modification), an additional AB bonus. All of these are standard magical +AB and fall under the +20 cap along with bard song, attack/enhancement bonus on your weapon, and so on.
In addition, at casterlevel 41 and higher, if you have at least 3 levels in a 1/1 BAB class, Tenser's increases your LBAB as well. You'll see this because you'll get a message in the combat log telling you your LBAB is higher. LBAB does not fall under the standard +20 cap because of the way it's implemented.
Acaos
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Post by dodrudon on Aug 6, 2007 8:20:30 GMT
Okay, so basically at level 40 with 21 BAB, Tenser's will give you +19 AB bonus, so if you have a +1 weapon, or Bless, or some other buff, you'll have your AB as maxed out as possible?
But at level 41, does the implementation of Tenser's change? Will it give the bonus to LBAB instead allowing you to actually reach the AB of a pure fighter?
I'm sensing a Yes/No/No....
Am I right in assuming this build with the AB will still work, seeing as how staffmasters out there are still able to whack away happily?
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Post by bort on Aug 6, 2007 8:27:21 GMT
Am I right in assuming this build with the AB will still work, seeing as how staffmasters out there are still able to whack away happily? I think so. Your AB may be lower than some, but still within the acceptable margin I think; even if it's not the super high AB of your average Flurry. The main difference in AB compared to an average Staffmaster would be the WM bonuses to AB which you don't get.
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Post by Acaos on Aug 6, 2007 8:38:32 GMT
Tenser's does not change implementation at CL 41; it just has the additional effect of modifying your control class for purposes of calculating LBAB only (if you meet the necessary prerequisites). None of the other AB bonuses change at all.
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Post by Yomi on Aug 6, 2007 9:17:30 GMT
For my number, I ran her to orcs, cast tensers, shot a few, and looked at combat log. The sheet of course is wildly inaccurate. What fun -- the Leg BaB change from Tensers is not applied until I re-equip a weapon. It's 83 now at range (goes up one with point blank if they're close range). Total LBaB is 12, dex is 59 (mod of 24), she has WF and EWF Longbow and Epic Prowess. So with final dex of 62 and if I got LWF, it would end at 91, which while lower than a normal AA who didn't take epic prowess or LWF, is still quite acceptable. Lots of tanks do hells with a lower ab.
Using rapid shot, the pattern was: 81/76/71/66/61/81/76/71 (the 9th attack doesn't come until character level 59, and of course rapid shot lowers all attacks by 2).
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Post by Besiege on Aug 6, 2007 11:51:08 GMT
It looks like you take Great Dexterity VII. With 20 base dexterity and all points in it that's 47 at 60, 59 with items. I would suggest swapping one great dex feat for toughness. And your AB shoul be: BAB - 9 Wiz + 2 AA Pre-Epic + 10 Epic = 21 Dex modifier - 24 Weapon Focus - 1 Epic Weapon Focus - 2 Epic Prowess - 1 Legendary Weapon Focus - 3 LL BAB - 9 or 15 with Tensers active Bow AB bonus + Tensers + other buffs (no need) - 20 Total - 87, 85 with rapid shot Normal AAs get about 93 AB with rapid shot active, Erynies or those who take weapon focuses 100. 87 is not bad at all, 85 does not look so good (it's fahrer from 90 ) but it should be alright.
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Post by dodrudon on Aug 6, 2007 16:18:31 GMT
Ouch, so hafta re-equip whenever casting Tenser's? Thanks guys for the help so far!
I think my AB actually dropped the other day when I cast Tenser's... but flatfootedness and such on the mob's end should affect only whether the final number is a *hit* or not, and not modify the AB, correct? Whereas PBS and such on the PC's end SHOULD affect the AB?
Thanks again!
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Post by dodrudon on Aug 6, 2007 16:22:02 GMT
It looks like you take Great Dexterity VII. With 20 base dexterity and all points in it that's 47 at 60, 59 with items. I would suggest swapping one great dex feat for toughness. Oops! Sorry, that's a typo on my part when I redid the build. I swapped a Great Dex for Blindfight there, and switched the first stat point from Int to Dex, so there should only be two Great Dexes there. Fixed.
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Post by bort on Aug 6, 2007 17:05:16 GMT
flatfootedness and such on the mob's end should affect only whether the final number is a *hit* or not, and not modify the AB, correct? Whereas PBS and such on the PC's end SHOULD affect the AB? Thanks again! Yep. If a mob is flatfooted it means the mob loses AC (eg. dodge, tumble, dex bonus if no uncanny dodge), not that you get a bonus to your AB. Point Blank Shot negates the default -4 ab penalty for using a ranged weapon and if you're within 15 feet of what you're shooting gives you +1 ab. Good luck determining what "15 feet" means.
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Post by dodrudon on Aug 12, 2007 8:05:45 GMT
I recently got Undying and redesigned the build for it (including Toughness!), so one last (hopefully) question.... Which door would you choose?
Door #1: 4x Great Dexterity (54 Dex fully buffed) Armor Skin Four Epic Spells (Trans Wall, Div AutoRez, Abj MSD, Ill Starfire)
Door #2 6x Great Dexterity (56 Dex fully buffed) Improved Combat Casting Three Epic Spells (same as above but no Starfire)
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Aug 12, 2007 20:47:04 GMT
I dunno if you realized this but you cannot become a staff master taking wep master at lvl 40: Staffmaster (Wizard/Weapon Master) ----- Requirements: Must have 15 levels of Wizard and Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff) before level 21. thus level 20 must be your weapon master level :/
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Post by kaldair on Aug 12, 2007 22:22:56 GMT
This is incorrect information. You don't need ANY levels of weaponmaster to become a staffmaster - exactly as your requirements quote says! Perhaps you are confused by the requirement of "Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff) before level 21". This is NOT the Weaponmaster's "Weapon of Choice" feat, but rather the generic "Weapon Focus" feat any class can take.
Kaldair
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