I was wondering if anyone ever determined if 3 1:1 BAB class levels was required to get the most AB out of Divine Power or not. I'm finally thinking about making one of these, and this would potentially have a pretty big impact.
When cast by a slinger, divine power always grants Legendary BAB of a fighter, according to the description in the alpha hak. My effective AB fully buffed now is 89, 90 in close range, if that helps. If you were to modernize and optimize for AB, you might trade 1 AC for 1 AB, with lwf sling and lsf enchant instead of 2 dex.
Hitting things is really not the problem. The lowly 30ish extra damage per hit is the problem, compared to AA ~50 or the ~100 a rogue does w/ sneak attacks. And it would be nice if the extra abilities would actually do anything.
Otherwise, I suggest not to obsess over AB, unless you're an assassin or WM. Play this as a dex tank. It's a bit boring, but it works. I use him as a specialist for Rona and Beholders.
Is this build still viable in comparison to the divine swiftsling ? I'm asking because I wrote down several slinger builds using open subbies. So far I only got this one and the divine swiftsling to compare my notes to. And while this one loses potential in terms of skills (no discipline at all, no heal), the divine swiftsling is splashing an doesn't get kd bullets (which I'd like to try out). And then there is the question about ab and ac...ab is about 89-91 depending on the build, and as I get esf abj (magic vestment, shield of faith) as well as girding I don't know whether I need armor skin (feels strange no taking it).
I'll just post the most notable facts about my builds:
Hobbit: borderline saves (59 fort, enough reflex, 61 will) ab 91 lsa tumble, cc disc + esf, full heal no tower shields
Spider Gnome: acceptable saves (61 fort, enough reflex, 63 will) ab 90 lsa tumble, cc discipline + esf, full heal, full parry no tower shields
Satyr: acceptable saves (same as spider gnome) ab 89 lsa tumble, cc disc + esf, full heal, full parry medium stature
All of the above get lsf: enchant and esf: abj from a tome, as well as rapid shot, all sling related attack feats (wf, ewf, ep, lwf, imp crit), 19 wisdom and armor skin
I haven't considered one with Svirfneblin carefully because they only got one first level feat (hobbit gets lucky -> legendary luck and choses blooded, spider gnome gets blooded -> lsa: tumble and choses strong soul, satyr is human base so blooded and strong soul), so I'd lose either 6 ac from tumble cc or get really bad saves (around 56-57).
Svirfneblin would be great for splashing monk and pally: acceptable saves (61 fort, enough reflex, 63 will) ab 92-93 lsa tumble, disc splash + esf, full heal, full parry, full craft weapon, 20 craft armor no tower shields everything else as above but no kd and magic bullets
I'm most worried about skill selection: The not-so-divine-slinger doesn't even get discipline and no heal. And both builds do not get parry while still no other protection from crits. I'd like to hear a comment about which skills are essential and which could be left out.
Next: ab. What is considered to be enough? Sure the hobbit build gets higher ab than the others, but at the cost of saves and a skill. Is rapid shot worth having...with a further -2 to ab it might just be better to not use it and let another of the lower tier attacks hit because of the ab.
AC. I get a dex mod of around 21-23, robes/bracers + girding, shield (magic vestment + girding = +20), some extra dodge ac from uef (not as much as a caster cleric, but it might help vs some penalties) as well as 60% conceal vs ranged and 40% vs melee. Without armor skin one could maybe free up another two great dex.
Thanks for reading through the whole post. shaengarne
Easy things first, armor skin is a race feat of thri-kreen.
Otherwise, your observations about the skills are completely correct, I would now try and fit both bullheaded and blooded in, for 63 levels of discipline and 60 levels of tumble, and see that I can get parry in as well, which leads us to the build-breaker: 3 skills require 14 int on a pure human cleric, which will probably cost you the extra epic, which in turn puts into question going with epics at all, and hence with 19 wisdom (as opposed to 16 for level 6 spells, since 7,8,9 doesn't get you much except UEF). Due to the skills requirements for hell-goers, the basic build idea is broken for use in hells, and the whole build unravels with the low int. If you want to salvage the build idea, build with a suitable BUR race, otherwise, chose a sub that does not give you -int, some dex and maybe wis or con, drop the epics and go all-out dexer. See that you fit in craft armor too, and if at all possible, concentration. You're going to need that 136+ AC.
Generally, I suggest not to obsess over AB unless you're a disarmer or an assassin, and unless your AC is in the high 130s or 140s, trading AC for more AB is not a wise choice.
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. But I think even with a race without +wis it's not worth losing epics (even if it's only one), because you'll get six epic bonus feats anyway. That's armor skin and great wis 5 if you intend to obtain a single epic from a book. And as you're forced to start with 11 wis before sub-race mods anyway, you can as well start with 14. I thought of playing this build as a supporter with gmw +14, healing circles (although it's very risky to stand behind the tanks and heal), prayer and battletide to lower enemy's ab and the various bullets to inflict whatever is needed, e.g. breach a mage, kd, blind. Would 63 disc still be needed on such a build. With a gnome base, you can get 5 or 6 skills, which include tumble, disc, parry, heal, craft armor and/or concentration. It's not the amount of skills that break the build, but the enabler feats. So far blooded is set, and strong soul or probably loh would be enough as far the saves are concerned, add bullheaded and I'm in big trouble. Going human or dwarf/half-orc base to get both blooded and bullheaded will not only cost a skill (most likely concentration), but is coupled with worse stats too (e.g. svirfneblin vs derrzagon or kobold).
So far I've come up with svirfneblin, ac in ur's and self buffed girding around 132, saves (without taking strong soul) all above 60, but disc stuck at 31 + 10 from esf. I still kept lsf:enchant but lost esf:abj.
- 140 ac in UR padded and generic tower shield (buffed with magic vestment and girding, might be 2 lower if magic vestment and girding dont stack for 3+20 shield ac and 1 higher if I get 15 craft armor from items or bard song) - 40% melee conceal, 60% ranged conceal - 88 ab +1 within point blank range, 6 attacks per round +1 with rapid shot - 60 tumble, 63 disc, parry heal and craft armor - lsf: enchant and esf: abj from a book - 59 fort, 62 reflex, 62 will - one free feat (imp crit, which I dropped before, esf: disc or parry for better defense or swap great + ll fort for epic fort)
Thanks for all the threads about divine slinger, they were a great inspiration and thanks to fragment for the help.