Eternal Light (36 Cleric/3 Rogue/1 Paladin)

[bunnyman]

My take on a less squishy Cleric. And before you say "omg no monk!" read the build first. Added parry due to update.


36 Cleric/3 Rogue/1 Paladin (You can just do it in this order actually)

Race: Human
Subrace: Fallen Angel

Abilities:
Base/After Racial effects:
(Str) 8/8
(Dex) 14/14
(Con) 16/16
(Int) 12/12
(Wis) 16/21
(Cha) 8/10

At 60/With +12 stats from item bonus’:
(Str) 8/20
(Dex) 14/26
(Con) 16/28
(Int) 10/22
(Wis) 52/64 (+2 perm item here -- all of points here too)
(Cha) 10/22


Hit Points:
894 Hit Points


Base Saves: (base at 60)
Fortitude: 12+10+5+9+6= 42
Reflex: 6+10+5+8+6= 35
Will: 12+10+5+27+6= 60


20 Cleric= Fort-12, Ref-6, Will-12
20 Epic Levels= Fort-10, Ref-10, Will-10
20 Legendary Levels= Fort-5, Ref-5, Will-5

26 Dex= Fort-0, Ref-8, Will-0
28 Con= Fort-9, Ref-0, Will-0
64 Wis= Fort-0, Ref-0, Will-27
22 Cha= Fort-6, Ref-6, Will-6


Skill Points at 40: 190
Concentration: 43
Discipline: 43 (paladin level at 40)
Heal: 21
Parry: 43
Tumble: 40 (rogue level at 39)


Total Skill Points at 60= 270
Concentration: 63
Discipline: 43 (59)
Heal: 63
Parry: 62
Tumble: 40



Epic Spells:
-Aegis
-Conversion
-Girding of the Faithful


Feats:
Free- Divine Might
Free- Divine Shield
Domain- Earth (stoneskin and energy buffer -- dr is your friend)
Domain- Trickery (35% conceal from improved invisibility)
Free after eating book at 41- Epic spell focus Enchantment
Human- Combat Casting
1- Spell Focus: Evocation
3- Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
6- Spell Penetration
9- Greater Spell Penetration
12- Silent Spell
15- Empowed Spell
18- Maximized Spell
21- Armor Skin
Epic Cleric Feat 1- Epic Spell Focus: Evocation
24- Spell Focus: Abjuration
Epic Cleric Feat 2- Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration
27- Improved Combat Casting
Epic Cleric Feat 3- Great Wisdom I
30- Epic Spell Penetration
Epic Cleric Feat 4- Great Wisdom II
33- Great Wisdom III
Epic Cleric Feat 5- Great Wisdom VI
36- Great Wisdom V
39- Great Wisdom VI
42- Legendary Spell Focus: Abjuration
45- Legendary Spell Focus: Evocation
48- Legendary Spell Penetration
51- Great Wisdom VII
54- Great Wisdom VIII
57- Great Wisdom IX
60- Epic Skill Focus: Discipline


Armor Class: (this isn't the absolute maximum, just what to expect at 60 when entering hell)
10+23+16+16+21+20+8+8+2= 124

Base: 10
Armor: Medium Armor (any with the magic vestament spell on it) - 23 (5 base+18)
Amulet: UR amulet- 16
Deflection: With the "Shield of Faith" spell - 16
Shield: Large Shield (any with the magic vestament spell on it) - 21 (3 base+18)
Dodge: Any +5 or greater boots with haste and UEF (undeaths eternal foe) active - 20
Dexterity Bonus: 8
Tumble: 8
Armor Skin: 2

[the1kobra]

Is having a caster cleric with only 36 base levels a good idea? When facing a multitude of enemies with an SR of about 80, coming out with a penetration of only 64 really hurts. Comparing this to the "Cheese" Cleric of 38/1/1 Cleric/Pal/Monk, you get...
UMD skill instead of Spellcraft.
Uncanny Dodge,
2D6 sneak attack,
For...
2 Spell Penetration
1 Feat.
Monk AC (Clerics usually wear platemail anyway.)
Uncanny dodge is useless because your dex bonus is effectively 1 in plate. 2D6 sneak attacks are not worth it considering you will be fighting with your spells and most likely not a weapon. As for UMD, you can already use divine spells from items, and the benefits are definitely not worth the penetration or the extra feat. The versatility the monk AC gives you is nice, but not necessarry. Overall, UMD is not worth what you give up.

[bunnyman]

the1kobra said:

Is having a caster cleric with only 36 base levels a good idea? When facing a multitude of enemies with an SR of about 80, coming out with a penetration of only 64 really hurts. Comparing this to the "Cheese" Cleric of 38/1/1 Cleric/Pal/Monk, you get...
UMD skill instead of Spellcraft.
Uncanny Dodge,
2D6 sneak attack,
For...
2 Spell Penetration
1 Feat.
Monk AC (Clerics usually wear platemail anyway.)
Uncanny dodge is useless because your dex bonus is effectively 1 in plate. 2D6 sneak attacks are not worth it considering you will be fighting with your spells and most likely not a weapon. As for UMD, you can already use divine spells from items, and the benefits are definitely not worth the penetration or the extra feat. The versatility the monk AC gives you is nice, but not necessarry. Overall, UMD is not worth what you give up.

"Uncanny dodge is useless because your dex bonus is effectively 1 in plate." Uhm, the point is to use Medium armor with high efficiency, not a plate at all.

[tyranlthixis]

No metamagic is a mistake. Silent is a must for cleric and I would add Maximum or Empower. In any one area you'll have one or two spells that are useful and the rest will be completely ineffective. No meta magic means you'll be walking around with unusable RUNGS of spells and all the time wishing you could convert those to inflicts, or harms, or earthquakes etc etc depending on which area you are in. You'll be resting every few minutes...burning through your rest ring and become a real nuisance to your party.

There's nothing 3 rogue levels do that make your character a better cleric. On the other hand every level that's not cleric nerfs your spell penetration which is a big deal. You need to scrape together every last drop of spell pen you can muster if you want to do well as a caster on HG. Those two splash class levels most people take come at a big price....add two more and you start getting into trouble. You're also nerfing your buffs and the overall power of your epics. The spell changes on this server reward purity. In addition you've nerfed your wisdom from the start which only serves to diminish the power of your "meat and potato" spells (such as implosion)...and you've taken too much dexterity and intelligence and too little constitution. Why con? Slightly higher AC is not going to save your as a cleric. Cleric's are all about staying out of harms way or in a pinch killing quickly. You're not going to be tanking. If you're on the front lines, you'll die just as fast with 118 AC + better DR than 121 AC and less DR. Hitpoints on the other hand will at least make you more resistant to death by kickback and one hit damage type attacks which AC doesn't help you against. Ever been to the hells with a caster with substandard hitpoints? Its Die...and Die ....and oh there he goes again dieing.

UMD is not very useful for clerics. You already have a superior version of sanctuary for one. You'd be gaining.....black blades? Mords maybe has some merit...but its a waste of skill points imo. Stick to what you're good at and leave the mords to any number of characters in your party who will have that ability.


Tyran

[Tonkers]

Quick question Bunny are you testing these builds your posting or actually making them leveling them to immo at least and putting on the gear and seeing what they are like?
I see you posting a new build everyday which no probs with that , but my point is just testing them in the test chamber isn't going to give you a total overall what the build is actual gonna be like when it comes for all LL areas... Plus Different gear will give different stats to what your posting here

Was just wondering thats all

[bunnyman]

tonksaers said:

Quick question Bunny are you testing these builds your posting or actually making them leveling them to immo at least and putting on the gear and seeing what they are like?
I see you posting a new build everyday which no probs with that , but my point is just testing them in the test chamber isn't going to give you a total overall what the build is actual gonna be like when it comes for all LL areas... Plus Different gear will give different stats to what your posting here

Was just wondering thats all

Some i've played, some not. I made this one with some mods but only till 40... but she tested pretty well, started solo'ing guardians at like 28 with ok gear and could hold her own on Lolth/Immo (not hiding behind tanks) Though she is slightly different, I need to modify silent spell in.

[bunnyman]

UMD is not very useful for clerics. You already have a superior version of sanctuary for one. You'd be gaining.....black blades? Mords maybe has some merit...but its a waste of skill points imo. Stick to what you're good at and leave the mords to any number of characters in your party who will have that ability.

Mords would be cool against some bosses, or AoO against some mobs... plus you could collect the TS wands from Thid runs, might be useful some day

[sabregirl]

Just as a general warning, lvl 40 is no assessment as to how a build will ultimately perform. I've had builds that were awesome at 40 only to suck at 60 and vice versa (vice versa is obviously preferred). Even mid and late LLs aren't always indicative of how things will turn out, especially in the hells versus other LL areas.

-S

[bunnyman]

sabregirl said:

Just as a general warning, lvl 40 is no assessment as to how a build will ultimately perform. I've had builds that were awesome at 40 only to suck at 60 and vice versa (vice versa is obviously preferred). Even mid and late LLs aren't always indicative of how things will turn out, especially in the hells versus other LL areas.

-S

I know, i'm just saying the amount of experience she has and what she has faught has been easy. But the way clerics are (or at least this one), your items will be your ultimate victory or downfall since the build allows you to wear virtually any medium/heavy armor, shield, deflection, boots without loosing ac (more likely gaining). You just need to have the proper immunities/resist's to go anywhere, and since basically all your items except your amulet is freed up, so that should be relatively easy.

[the1kobra]

bunnyman said:

I know, i'm just saying the amount of experience she has and what she has faught has been easy. But the way clerics are (or at least this one), your items will be your ultimate victory or downfall since the build allows you to wear virtually any medium/heavy armor, shield, deflection, boots without loosing ac (more likely gaining). You just need to have the proper immunities/resist's to go anywhere, and since basically all your items except your amulet is freed up, so that should be relatively easy.

Errr, even with the "Cheese" build, you get the same amount of items. You might get the legendary helm of balance if not neutral with the rogue type, but really, the downfalls are not worth the exceedingly limited benefits.
If *anything*, you could make the same build with 38/1/1 Cleric/Paladin/Rogue, really, the evasion and uncanny dodge are not worth the loss of penetration and the feat.

[bunnyman]

the1kobra said:

bunnyman said:

I know, i'm just saying the amount of experience she has and what she has faught has been easy. But the way clerics are (or at least this one), your items will be your ultimate victory or downfall since the build allows you to wear virtually any medium/heavy armor, shield, deflection, boots without loosing ac (more likely gaining). You just need to have the proper immunities/resist's to go anywhere, and since basically all your items except your amulet is freed up, so that should be relatively easy.

Errr, even with the "Cheese" build, you get the same amount of items. You might get the legendary helm of balance if not neutral with the rogue type, but really, the downfalls are not worth the exceedingly limited benefits.
If *anything*, you could make the same build with 38/1/1 Cleric/Paladin/Rogue, really, the evasion and uncanny dodge are not worth the loss of penetration and the feat.

I think that they would be, I'm not all that fond of getting 1 hit by a dragon breath (ive seen it many a times). And I kinda like having uncanny on this as the 8 extra flatfooted ac could be the difference between getting hit by 4 attacks from an enemy and 2 attacks (we all experience action cancels once in a while -- along with lag spikes)

Though if you were to do the 38/1/1 the tanks might love you more as the feat you would probally get is Legendary Spell Focus: Enchantment.

[atomicsomething]

tonksaers said:

Quick question Bunny are you testing these builds your posting or actually making them leveling them to immo at least and putting on the gear and seeing what they are like?
I see you posting a new build everyday which no probs with that , but my point is just testing them in the test chamber isn't going to give you a total overall what the build is actual gonna be like when it comes for all LL areas... Plus Different gear will give different stats to what your posting here
Was just wondering thats all

I'm asking myself the same ...

bunnyman said:

I think that they would be,

You should spend a little more time playing and understanding the pros and cons of each feature/spells/class in HG.

[bunnyman]

atomicsomething said:

tonksaers said:

Quick question Bunny are you testing these builds your posting or actually making them leveling them to immo at least and putting on the gear and seeing what they are like?
I see you posting a new build everyday which no probs with that , but my point is just testing them in the test chamber isn't going to give you a total overall what the build is actual gonna be like when it comes for all LL areas... Plus Different gear will give different stats to what your posting here
Was just wondering thats all

I'm asking myself the same ...

bunnyman said:

I think that they would be,

You should spend a little more time playing and understanding the pros and cons of each feature/spells/class in HG.

I do.