8 Druid/3 Rogue/29 Shifter - even more versatile

[sabregirl]

So . . . non-suprisingly I'm posting a shifter build. This one is non-standard (the usual is some combination of monk, druid and shifter) and a bit experimental - cobbled together from what I've learned building 4 shifters (messing up 3) so far . .

Subrace: Thri-Kreen - this secret subrace is THE shifter subrace you want to use primarily because of the free alertness feat - required for shifter, the widom boost free armor skin etc.

Alignment: Neutral - due to druid

Stats:
STR 9
DEX 11 (13)
CON 14
WIS 16 (18)
INT 16 (14)
CHA 8 (6)

Level order/skills:
Take 5 druid levels before beginning shifter levels. Rogue levels can be done at any time but ONE must be taken at a level that is divisible by three - because the exotic weapon feat can ONLY be taken then. Take one rogue level at 20 and another at 40 and max thief skills (OL, DT, PP, Search) and Tumble. Max concentration during druid/shifter levels. If you have extra skill points throw a few in hide and move silently since kobold commando gets HIPS for free - useful in annoying but low level areas.

Stats - dump everything into wisdom until 30 wis reached - lvl 30 in this build. Afterwards put everything in constitution since you'll be taking a bit more damage than the average shifter (if there is such a thing).

Feats:
Heavy Armor - (Pile it on - it won't affect dex in shifted form)
Dodge
Mobility
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (since the stats of the weapon transfer to all forms you want the ability to use as many types as possible)
Blind Fight
Knockdown- (who doesn't want a dragon with knockdown?)
Combat Casting
Great Wisdom X 5
Undead Shape
Outsider Shape
Dragon Shape
Construct form
Epic Skill Focus - Disarm Trap
Epic Skill Focus - Open Lock

Some of the feats could be swapped around - it depends on what you want - very few actions as a shifter actually count as casting or use a concentration check but there are occasions.

Stats at level 40:
Str 9
DEX 13
CON 18
WIS 30
INT 13
CHA 8
(Everything but wisdom, intelligence and constitution is generally overwritten by forms)

Cons vs. standard monk/shifter:
Lower AC. Shield modifier takes place of wisdom modifier
Lower DCs on forms using wisdom modifier - Mindflayer, Azer Chieftan
Lose the ability to use monk gloves for unarmed attack bonus (usually only a few points)
Fewer attacks per round in unarmed forms

Pros:
Can actually do ALL the thiefly jobs with kobold commando - and other forms.
Sneak attack on all forms - stacks with 5d6 from epic kobold commando.
Still get evasion like monk

Could take more Rogue levels for better sneak attack, however the more non-druid levels are taken, the lower the DCs on many forms such as Dragon and Basilisk. While Basilisk will be surpassed by medusa in LL, it's a long time to have a crappy stone gaze This build's Basilisk DC will be 42 at lvl 40.

Check here for shifter form DCs

Now go forth untrap, spit, gaze, pickpocket and breathe all over everything!


-S

[sabregirl]

In case anyone cares, a safer more standard shifter build would be simply to take the rogue levels of this build and replace them with monk levels. Along with a few other minor changes . . .

I still like putting skill points in open lock even when using a monk since Kobold commando form gets a nice bonus to open lock so you'll be able to open at least *some*chests. Still max out concentration even though rarely used. What you put the rest of your points in (other than saving enough to max out tumble) really doesn't matter. Although putting them in any skill that requires the use of an item - e.g. heal, set trap is a waste because you can't use any items in shifted form and you're probably not going to want to be running around NOT shapeshifted. Unfortunately Kobold commando gets a nice bonus to set trap skill - but you can't use them

Not really worth putting much in disarm trap since you aren't *allowed* to open traps of more than 35DC without having a rogue level. You can still max tumble with monk levels by giving up one shifter level - which I think is a pretty good idea.

Also, instead of stopping putting points into wisdom at 30- you continue to increase wisdom all the way up into LL, increasing your AC and DC. Starting with lower intelligence (10) and more constitution is also probably a better idea with a monk shifter although, you give up the potential for improved knockdown and expertise if you do, which are really nice things to have.

-S

[lala]

Hooray a build that clearly shows natural stats without items for saves/abilities/etc.
I am not being critical of other builds being posted, just that it can get rather confusing to see 3 different stats, and makes it confusing understanding the AB posted.
Pretty clear build here thx

Regarding monk, does the fact you lose your dex/dodge when surrounded by 3 or mobs affect the survivability of shifter with monk?

[sabregirl]

Well, I'm pretty sure it's going to happen no matter what 3rd class you pick as a shifter and any class other than monk will lower your AC in shifted form noticably.

Getting surrounded is a bad thing but generally avoidable through good playstyle - except in the maze where sometimes 6 will spawn ON TOP of you But generally I don't notice it too much in dragon form unless surrounded by 5-6 plus. And going FF is BAD no matter how you slice it. Avoid it as best you can and don't try to be the tank.

If I were to post ABs it would be crazy because there'd be something like 10 different ones (the forms having an AB worth talking about) to post

But anyway, being a shifter doesn't generally revolve around having good AB. Some forms are decent meleers but usually there's something better you could be doing other than melee - like turning things to stone/ Mindflaying/ shooting with spikes etc. Melee is usually the last resort. You could build a more melee friendly shifter (you'd have to take fewer shifter levels to make it worthwhile) but you'd give up pretty well all of your shifter powers so why not just build a regular meleer then?

-S

[fierce illusions]

Alright.
I was wondering if we could add a rouge into the build earlier..
Thanks Sabre.

-Fierce

[sabregirl]

Well, you CAN make a build like this but there really isn't much point, as I figured out when I went to build this and got to lvl 34 . . . decided it was far, FAR too squishy. There really isn't much point though as splashing rogue just doesn't do the same thing as monk levels :/ Kobold form can't use items so you can't use lockpicks anyway and only splashing rogue levels means you can't open many chests anyway. You want a rogue you gotta build a rogue . . . maaaybe an assassin.

-S

[ZeroGravitySE]

Assassin is my next build, I really want something that can open lock, disable traps, and be able to smack things in one hit. Made me sad when I first came here to learn that about fighters, lol....

The monk ac is too important.