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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 18, 2007 15:56:38 GMT
Well the description is very confusing. That changes alot in this build. I have to re look things over again. *SIGH* *SIGH* No pain no gain This opens up three feats! So that gives me a idea how to get better saves on this now. I'm going to revert to the old build and rebuild from the ground up. I save all my versions so I can go back and redo them if I made a mistake many versions later. With three new feats, I can get LL LOH, and some epic feats also. P.S. - Thanks Funky! Sorry about the troubles.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 18, 2007 17:04:18 GMT
Updated to 1.06final - Fixed LL Levels. - Redid some epic feats - Added LOH back in - Added Great Con II for additional HP - Edited all the information to state the correct values. - PLS COMMENT if you see anything that could be improved! - Final Build Version 2 *ADDED* - Fixed INT not being over 13+ problem.
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Post by AndyDeck on Jul 18, 2007 19:48:35 GMT
Updated to 1.06final - Fixed LL Levels. - Redid some epic feats - Added LOH back in - Added Great Con II for additional HP - Edited all the information to state the correct values. - PLS COMMENT if you see anything that could be improved! - Final Build Version 2 Taking Great Con I-II for HP in LL is a bad mistake - you will lose most of the HP you think you are gaining, as the HP gains for CON in LL are NOT retroactive. Swap those with Great STR in Epic levels. I don't understand your 'Final' numbers for attributes - it's not based on regular increases, nor is it the typical +12 - what is it? Have you tried this build in the CBC-HG spreadsheet or Test area? I think I'm seeing another mistake, one not so easy to fix. Your final DEX and INT on both variants appears to be 12, so how are you taking Expertise, Dodge, Mobility or any of the other feats that requires 13 for DEX or INT or both? As it stands you are going to have to give something up to get your post-1st level DEX and INT both to 13+. You really should try to actually create these builds before posting them, it will eliminate simple errors like this. And I'd be very hesitant to call a build 'the best epic dodge fighter' if you haven't even taken it to immo yet, much less Hells.
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Post by kaldair on Jul 18, 2007 20:50:00 GMT
Actually if you examine the build he takes dex +1 at level 4, and then takes Dodge. But you are completely right about the +1 to Int needed to take Expertise being missing. And I agree taking the build at least through the HG test build area catches these kinds of mistakes.
Kaldair
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 18, 2007 21:41:02 GMT
Taking Great Con I-II for HP in LL is a bad mistake - you will lose most of the HP you think you are gaining, as the HP gains for CON in LL are NOT retroactive. Swap those with Great STR in Epic levels. 2 strength feats give me +1ab, +1dmg 2 con feats give me +40hp, +1fortitude save I'll take the extra hitpoints since I already can possibly get my AB to 88. The final numbers is everything buffed +12, plus all the feats, plus all the ability points I took. Which one of them in the intro was +1dex. I overlook things now and then but overall my builds are very sound on paper. I post my builds here to get ideas from friends I meet in game. You just pointed out one thing I changed in the new version that I wasn't thinking about. The stats where different the first time I posted this, with 14+int, so all I did was change some feats around and changed the stats not thinking I was doing anything wrong. I think your a bit hasty in saying that and almost insulting. I already took this build thru the builder TWICE, and I have written 3-4 pages of ideas down. Just because I make a simple mistake doesn't mean it can't be fixed within minutes. The whole reason for me posting would be for others to help me finish my build off with comments and opinions. I haven't released any "BEST" epic dodge fighter build yet because this one isn't completed. I was talking about a complete build first, then adding in the ultra secret subraces that make the builds even better. If I call something the "BEST" it usually means that even with minor changes the build is the BEST possible solution for a specific class. If people want to argue that fact and prove me wrong, I appreciate it. But overall the builds I make are ones I'll eventually play. I have built other builds in the past that are still around and aren't playable in my eyes. Thats why I am reworking the ones I have now. I'll fix these simple mistakes, thanks for pointing them out. After that this build is going to be finalized because I believe its close to one of the best possible solutions for a Minotaur Epic Dodge Fighter, but I won't put that in the title or anywhere. If im wrong, PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG. So I can improve as not only a player, but a person. -ZGSE-
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Post by AndyDeck on Jul 19, 2007 4:32:39 GMT
Taking Great Con I-II for HP in LL is a bad mistake - you will lose most of the HP you think you are gaining, as the HP gains for CON in LL are NOT retroactive. Swap those with Great STR in Epic levels. 2 strength feats give me +1ab, +1dmg 2 con feats give me +40hp, +1fortitude save I'll take the extra hitpoints since I already can possibly get my AB to 88. You are misunderstanding me on the Great STR/Great CON issue. I am not suggesting you take any more or less of these feats, just that you need to take them in a different order. 2 CON feats pre-epic will get you +60HP at lvl 60. 2 CON feats at levels 57 and 60 will get you +1HP - that is NOT a typo, you will really only gain 1 HP! (plus a +1 to Fort save, of course). That is just how CON works in LL, it's not a retroactive HP grant like it would be pre-epic. So all you have to do to fix this is take the 2 CON feats at say 33 and 36, and move those 2 STR feats to 57 and 60 - same final result to AB & FORT, but +59 HP Also, if it were me, I wouldn't include the GMW bonus in the 'Max AB' - there are weapons now that have base ATT or ENH over +13, GMW itself can go to +14 and there's a cleric buff that can do +16, and Bard Song can easily get you to the full +20. I'd only list GMW or similar effects on a self-buffer as an example of expected AB. For this toon, I'd list the AB with NO weapon buff as that's what it would be with a DB weapon. It's easy enough to mentally add the weapon bonus of up to +20. Actually, by that count, the real max AB of this build is 95 for the Mino, 96 for the Lizardfolk version as that's not a Large form
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 19, 2007 4:47:33 GMT
2 strength feats give me +1ab, +1dmg 2 con feats give me +40hp, +1fortitude save I'll take the extra hitpoints since I already can possibly get my AB to 88. You are misunderstanding me on the Great STR/Great CON issue. I am not suggesting you take any more or less of these feats, just that you need to take them in a different order. 2 CON feats pre-epic will get you +60HP at lvl 60. 2 CON feats at levels 57 and 60 will get you +1HP - that is NOT a typo, you will really only gain 1 HP! (plus a +1 to Fort save, of course). That is just how CON works in LL, it's not a retroactive HP grant like it would be pre-epic. So all you have to do to fix this is take the 2 CON feats at say 33 and 36, and move those 2 STR feats to 57 and 60 - same final result to AB & FORT, but +59 HP Also, if it were me, I wouldn't include the GMW bonus in the 'Max AB' - there are weapons now that have base ATT or ENH over +13, GMW itself can go to +14 and there's a cleric buff that can do +16, and Bard Song can easily get you to the full +20. I'd only list GMW or similar effects on a self-buffer as an example of expected AB. For this toon, I'd list the AB with NO weapon buff as that's what it would be with a DB weapon. It's easy enough to mentally add the weapon bonus of up to +20. Actually, by that count, the real max AB of this build is 95 for the Mino, 96 for the Lizardfolk version as that's not a Large form Thank you that is helpful I'll re-look somethings over. -ZGSE-
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 19, 2007 5:31:28 GMT
Updated to 1.07final - Thanks to AndyDeck for pointing out a more effective way of building the final build. - Updated the info to show MaxWeaponBonus in AB, so now shows Minotaur 95, and Lizardfolk 96. - If anyone sees anything else that can be improved without changing the race, pls comment. *ADDED* - AB for lizardfolk is 95 due to 2 less str, FIXED.
-ZGSE-
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Post by Kainan on Jul 29, 2007 13:03:24 GMT
whats the best weapon for this build with lizard?
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 29, 2007 19:34:08 GMT
whats the best weapon for this build with lizard? Either Bastard Sword, or Katana would be my picks. Katana can get a higher crit rang for the same 1d10 since funky changed it.
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