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Post by bort on Aug 27, 2006 15:10:04 GMT
Check out westy's version of the build below this post, it's a little less rough round the edges *Build updated. Big thanks to everyone who offered advice on improvements to the build. Been on HG over half a year now, so it's about time i posted a build.
I've made a few mages and 'bufftanks' that are brilliant when buffed but useless when hit with mord or breach.This build is supposed to be a defensive unbuffed tank that can wade in to battle and take alot of abuse from anything HG can throw at it.RACE: Thri-Kreen (secret subrace) Starting Stats: (thri-kreen stat mods in brackets) STR 8 (8) DEX 18 (20) CON 17 (17) INT 8 (6) WIS 9 (11) CHA 8 (6) Level progression: 16monk/4fighter/5shadowdancer/15monk 1 stat point into Constitution, the rest into Dexterity Skills: Get Hide to 10 and Move Silently to 8 asap for SD prereq. Then get hide and tumble to 30 for self conceal asap 43 tumble @ 40 43 discipline @ 40 rest where you like.. Feats: 1: Dodge, Mobility Pre-epic: Weapon Finesse, Toughness, Blind Fight, Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike, Great Fort, Iron Will Epic Feats: Great Dex III first to qualify for Self Conceal, Epic Dodge, Epic Will, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Prowess. Fighter Bonus Feats: Improved Critical Unarmed Strike, Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike, Spring Attack Monk Bonus Feats: Self Conceal 1 & 2 Suggested Legendary feats: Self Conceal 3, 4 & 5, Epic Fort, Great Dex 4 & 5. Went with fists for three reasons - frees up a feat (or two) where two weapon fighting (and improved) would have been, allows the use of some nifty monk gloves i found with +14 ab - which means no need for gmw and so i can laugh in the face of vrocks. Here's the naked stats @ 40: (maxed values in brackets) STR 8 (20) DEX 32 (44) CON 18 (30) INT 6 (18) WIS 11 (23) CHA 6 (18) HP 457 (684) AC 37 (49 with maxed Dex) AB 41 (47 with maxed Dex, 61 with +14 monk gloves, according to the Character Sheet... make of that what you will) SR 41 BA 26 FORT 30 (36 with maxed STR, 56 with +20 saves) REFLEX 32 (38 with maxed DEX, 58 with +20 saves) WILL 27 (33 with maxed WIS, 53 with +20 saves) Pros: Epic Dodge, Uncanny Dodge (essential for a dexer), Undispellable Spell Resistance of 41, Solid Reflex and Fort saves when maxed with gear, Good AC, Walks on quicksand (frees up a ring slot in desert), Conceal of 20%, Conceal 50% a few times a day with monk feat, Can't be disarmed. Cons: Ok HP, Low base attack, Ok attack bonus, Will could be higher, Can't wear a shield or heavy armor (hope those saves are good enough for those implode happy critters in the desert....?)
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Post by reelroleplayer on Aug 27, 2006 15:54:58 GMT
(Can someone clarify for me exactly what a monk loses by wearing a shield? Just Wisdom AC modifier? Thanks) - Cool build--I'm a fan of unarmed monks, and this looks pretty good. To answer your question, using any armor or shield causes you to forfeit the improved monk attack sequence, all wisdom AC bonus as well as the additional bonus AC from monk (every 5 levels), and negates monk run speed bonus as well. It's not worth it, unless you are using monk as a splash class for a specific reason (such as to get cleave and evasion and tumble dump). Check the wiki for more info: www.nwnwiki.org/Monk
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Post by hiryuu on Aug 27, 2006 18:39:55 GMT
If you go 8 Monk/8 SD/4 Monk pre-Epic, you get 15 BAB instead of 14. You may want to take 4 Fighter or CoT pre-Epic, for 16 BAB and another attack. Pick up Improved Critical if you can.
If you take Great Con, ALWAYS take it pre-LL for the best hit points.
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Post by Besiege on Aug 27, 2006 19:22:49 GMT
I would take only 5 levels of SD because monk at level 9 gains Improved Evasion too. I can´t remember any other good thing of SD with this low level. You can take fighter (or any other class with full BAB) instead of 5 SD levels. So it should be something like monk 16/BAB class 4/SD 5/monk 15 (monk 31/BAB class 4/SD 5). Not sure if the 6th attack is useful (it has -15 AB) but maybe against lower mobs. You can take 30 monk/5 CoT/5 SD but I´m not sure if CoT gains +1 to saving throws at level 5 or not.
Edit: Ok, CoT doesn´t gain aditional saving throw bonus.
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Post by bort on Aug 29, 2006 16:46:48 GMT
Finally started the build.. All stocked with potions and what have you, so, connection allowing, see you on HG soon..
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Post by phalthallus on Sept 25, 2006 14:49:39 GMT
Sorry to bring 2 Monk builds to the top of the list, but I wanted to see what you thought of this build Bort, if you've played it to the LL's (and even if you haven't). What are the SD levels for? (Forgive my ignorance about that one). I'm just trying to work on a monk build, and recently got the Thri-Kreen subrace, so this build obviously stuck out to me quickly. Just wondering how you liked it and how it did. Would you change anything, in retrospect?
Thanks!
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Post by bort on Sept 25, 2006 16:28:08 GMT
Hey, here's my thoughts.. Was doing very well in LLs but retired the build before I got to level 50 when I got the Mino subrace, because I wasn't killing things fast enough for my taste. I did find it great fun to play though. It came after a staffmaster build and being constantly ready without having to buff was a nice change. For survivability, this build rocks (which was entirely the point). The AB could do with a boost IMO, and you might even like to tweak the build to use Kama instead, as there are good Kama available pre-immo on and even better ones in LLs - this should improve your damage output. I haven't tried this, but swapping fighter out for ranger would give you the Dual Wielding feat, which would be great if you plan to use Kama. Also, sticking more fighter/ranger levels in the build pre-epic instead of monk levels for higher AB could well be worth it. I think the main function of the shadow dancer levels was for uncanny dodge (retain dex bonus flatfooted) and for defensive roll, a prerequisite of Epic Dodge - which I found very handy indeed. You could get defensive roll with 10 rogue levels instead and you'd also get sneak attacks.. So maybe you're looking at building a ranger/monk/rogue now? (you would of course lose shadow evade, and no longer be a particularly funky looking monk) I'd recommend using the test builder first, if you're planning to make changes, just to make sure the feats work out (especially for epic dodge and self conceal, and to see where your AB gets to).
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Post by phalthallus on Sept 25, 2006 16:44:32 GMT
I was planning on using kama's anyway, so that part is taken care of. Monks get IE anyway, but I forgot about Epic Dodge requiring Defensive Roll. I was planning on going with 28 Monk/7 WM/5 HS, or possibly 30 Monk/5 Fighter/5 HS. Benefits of 1st one are for crit attacks w/ kamas obviously, and using the Improved Whirlwind attack (which I could do using the 2nd method, but the feats seem "less wasted" in the first build); benefits of 2nd build are 3 extra feats (one of which would be used for Weapon Spec, in lieu of taking WM), and also 1 extra Monk bonus feat (if my calcs are correct). So it's a toss-up right now to me. The Ranger idea isn't bad either though, although I think that Fighter is just as good, if not better. Thri's get Ambi already, so one of the extra fighter feats can be used for TWF. I'd forgotten about the Defensive Roll req for Epic Dodge...that does cause a conundrum. I really want that HS class for 2 extra attacks, so unless I take fewer Monk levels, and go something like 5 HS/13 Rogue/22 Monk, or 5 HS/10 SD/25 Monk, I can't get it. But maybe those builds aren't a bad idea either... Decision, decisions....
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Post by bort on Sept 25, 2006 17:07:32 GMT
I should mention that the Ranger/Monk/Rogue option would present a stinging XP penalty I believe- although I don't know how much..
Kama aren't the most obvious choice for a WM build because of the 20 starting crit range, so personally I'd take fighter instead, save some feats, get a higher AB (by taking plenty of fighter preepic in a multiple of 4) and get the weapon specialization feat for +2 damage.
Maybe lose the monk completely, and go with Fighter/HS/Rogue. You'd lose the monk SR and I think you'd lose a few attacks, but you could take more Fighter levels pre-epic than I did for extra AB (needed) and still get improved evasion and defensive roll with rogue, as well as uncanny dodge.
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Post by phalthallus on Sept 25, 2006 17:11:16 GMT
BUT I WANT A MONK!!! Thanks for your input Bort. It definitely gives me something to think about. I'll keep thinking, and reading the comments on Jilly's Banzai too as well, to see if I can't come up with something that will suit me. Thanks again!
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Post by reelroleplayer on Oct 31, 2006 19:29:12 GMT
Hope this isn't too far off-topic. I briefly toyed with a cleric/monk/HS build, and here's why: Monk Base Attacks: 5/rd Cleric (Div Power) : +1 at 16, +2 at 45, +3 at 55 HS: +2 additional attacks Haste: +1 Flurry: +1 Not sure if all the attacks would stack, honestly, but if they did that's 5+3+2+1+1 = 12 attacks/round (WITHOUT dual wielding). Of course, this build would suffer when flat-footed since none of those classes have uncanny dodge. It would also have to be built with almost all cleric (55 levels to get all bonus attacks), so it might be better to dual wield kamas and just do 45 cleric levels total (for the second tier attack from divine power). I'm pretty sure the cap on # of attacks is 12, but if not then a dual-wielder 45 cleric/5HS/10monk with the HS secret and all two-weapon feats would be at 13 attacks/round. You could probably build it to have a decent AB, although it depends on whether you are willing to sacrifice some high level spell slots by going almost all dex (though Fallen Angel or Aasimar would help). Either way, it's silly
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Post by westy on Nov 5, 2006 14:30:01 GMT
Hey. I actually created this build by thinking it up on my own. My character is called Rillinlure the Lost Soul using the wraith subby on halfling. Can't remember everything I did but heres what i can remember. Started with 20 dex, 7 str, 14 con, 9 int, 14 wis and 8 cha. With wraith this changed to 23 dex, 4 str, 14 con 10 int 14 wis and 8 cha. Wraith also gives 6 to hide and move silent(MS) 1-monk-luck of heros-tumble 2-monk-tumble 3-monk-Weap. Finess-tumble 4-Fighter-Wep focus unarmed-dex 5-Fighter-Blind Fight 6-Monk-Dodge-3 to Hide, +2 to MS, +3 to tumble 7-Monk-Hide, tumble 8-Monk-hide, tumble-dex 9-Monk-Toughness-Hide 10-fighter 11-Monk- +2Hide, +2 tumble 12-Monk-Great fort-hide, tumble-dex 13-monk-hide, tumble 14-Fighter-Imp Crit unarmed 15-Monk-Mobility- +2hide, +2 tumble 16-monk-hide, tumble-dex 17-SD-hide, tumble, +20 Pick pocket (PP) 18-SD-Light. Reflexes-hide, tumble, pp 19-SD-hide, tumble, pp 20-SD-hide, tumble, pp-dex 21-SD-Epic Dodge-hide, tumble, pp 22-monk-hide, tumble 23-monk-hide, tumble 24-monk-Epic wep focus unarmed-hide, tumble-dex 25-monk-hide, tumble 26-monk-hide, tumble 27-monk-armour skin-hide, tumble 28-monk-tumble-dex 29-monk-tumble 30-monk-Self conceal 1-tumble 31-monk-tumble 32-monk-tumble-dex 33-monk-Self Conceal 2-tumble 34-monk-Self Conceal 3-tumble 35-monk-tumble 36-monk-Self Conceal 4-tumble-dex 37-monk-tumble 38-monk-tumble 39-monk-Epic prowess, Self Conceal 5-tumble 40-Monk- +43 Disc, +16 Conc. or lore, tumble-dex 41+ every feat into great dex, every skill point into tumble, disc, conc. or lore and every upgrade into dex. You will be putting 2 each lvl into conc. or lore whichever you choose and 1 into tumble and 1 into disc. disc is needed for thids n such. conc i chose cause i dont like being taunted. if u dont think this is an issue go for lore instead or something else, even appraise if u like So far it is at lvl 52, with 68 ab using sissy gloves which have +16, about 800hp, and 122/123 ac with robes +14 (hawlkights UR robes), defelction +15, natural +16 (elemental UR ammy), dodge +15 and 22 ac from dex (55 dex), 8 from wisdom, and either 6 or 8 depending on if LL's count towards monk ac bonus every 5 monk lvls + tumble ac. IN HIND-SIGHT I really should have gone 16 monk 4 fighter from 1-20, and swapped the light. reflexes for iron will. Then i should have taken my 5 SD levels. Instead of epic dodge at 21 i would move the epic wep focus to 21 and armour skin to 24, then take epic dodge at 27. This would mean that my ab is boosted by 1 from the monks unarmed attack bonus from pre epic lvls. But i didnt think of that until it was too late for me hehe. I chose epic prowess and armour skin instead of great dex's cause 2 great dex's = 1 ab and 1 ac, but epic prowess and armour skin = 1 ab and 2 ac. The saves on this char are great. At lvl 52 i have maxed out saves (with the +20 cap) of: 52 fort 66 reflex 47 will Oh and 60 Spell Resistance at 52. Guessing around 71 SR at 60. At level 60 i should end up with 50 dex (23 +10 from 1-40, +10 from 41-60, plus +7 from great dex) Maxed out at 62 with equipment to give a dex mod of 26. This will increase ab to 72 using sissy gloves, and maxed out at 76 with any other ab buffs like bard song in party. Ac will go to 127, tumble should add another 1. So with the same equipment ac will be around 130 ac assuming that LLs count towards the monk ac bonus for every 5 monk lvls. Any questions or suggestions feel free to reply or look me up on HG. Sorry for taking up so much of your room Bort, but didn't think i should create new post for basically same build hehe. Basically overall i thoroughly enjoy playing this character. Being quick is my favourite thing really. But also the fact i have to roll ones to become petrified, eat sand, get imploded or most other things is good. The 50% conceal, epic dodge and decent ac means i survive pretty long in most places with the right ele immunities and such. Lots of spell just bounce off with SR, and improved evasion. =Update= Found out that there will be a dex adding item similar to the eye of vecna that will add +1 to dex, so i think i will drop the 7th great dex feat and take maybe epic will, cant decide yet. This will leave with 49 base dex then the item will take it to 50 Westy aka Teh_Owenerer aka Bannor aka Rillinlure
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Post by MilesAtma on Nov 5, 2006 15:20:22 GMT
nice builds
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Post by bort on Nov 5, 2006 15:59:08 GMT
I like what you've done there Westy, getting Self Conceal V by 40 will make the early LLs much easier.. Looks good. On re-reading my build it's embarrassing to see a couple of glaring mistakes I made, because I didn't know any better at the time
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Post by westy on Jun 18, 2007 5:23:13 GMT
Bump...Haha
Have pretty much every pair of gloves worth using now (sissy, DB, Moad, etc) and with them can damage pretty much anything around. DB gloves do awesome damage, but when you need the ab swap to sissy. Sometimes use missile mits for fire damage
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