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Post by lala on Jun 22, 2007 13:36:57 GMT
Is everyone sure about the damage reduction and soak? One reason I say this is that if you are a DD with say 18/- by the logic applied you would never benefit from being a DD if using an item with good soak.
I thought what happens is the soak is applied seperately to the damage resist, I cannot remember which one is 1st. Also the EDR feats stack with DD or barb resistance and also combine with 1 item of resistance.
So in conclusion technically they do not stack but both apply, furthermore EDR will stack with 1 dmg resist item (the highest worn).
A good test is to try a lowbie area using a 10/- or 15/- item combined with a stoneskin. Thought I had both working, might be the resist is applied before the soak but not 100% sure of the order.
Lala
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Post by bort on Jun 24, 2007 23:37:52 GMT
I'm working on a caster bard build based on ideas from various bards builds posted on the forum and decided to go bard all the way, with no cheese. So, I figured this was the best place to post it for constructive criticism. (Hope that's ok with you AtomicSomething, please PM me if you'd rather I move it to a new thread).
Pros: 80% conceal 30/+15 soak for whole party from bardsong 3 Bard Epics Hopefully fairly resistant to KD checks (str+con checks more than dex) Ok saves (all 60!)
Cons: No Evasion/Monk AC No Paladin level(s) for cheese saves or Fear immune Skills points are slighly stretched (4 skill points short of maxing the skills listed below)
Read Divination book for Petrification epic.
Dragonblooded Stat Starting(subrace mod) str 14 (16) con 16 (18) cha 14 (16) dex 12 int 12 (14) wis 8 (6)
(The Strength, Constitution and Dexterity increases are to help combat KD checks in hell).
Skills: Discipline Concentration Heal Tumble Umd Perform
1 Curse Song 3 Spell Focus Illusion 4 +1 Constitution (19) 6 Spell Focus Transmutation 8 +1 Constitution (20) 9 Combat Casting 12 Greater Spell Focus Illusion, +1 Constitution (21) 15 Greater Spell Focus Transmutation 16 +1 Constitution (22) 18 Silent Spell 20 +1 Constitution (23) 21 Great Charisma I (17) 23 (bonus feat) Lasting Insipiration 24 Improved Combat Casting (req. 25 concentration), +1 Constitution (24) 26 (bonus feat) Lingering Song 27 Great Charisma II (18) 28 +1 Constitution (25) 29 (bonus feat) Great Charisma III (19) 30 Great Charisma IV (20) 32 +1 Constitution (26), (bonus feat) Great Charisma V (21) 33 Great Charisma VI (22) 35 (bonus feat) Great Charisma VII (23) 36 Great Charisma VIII (24), +1 Constitution (27) 38 (bonus feat) Great Charisma IX (25) 39 Great Charisma X (26) 40 +1 Constitution (28)
42 Epic Spell Focus Transmutation, +1 Charisma (27) 44 +1 Charisma (28) 45 Epic Spell Focus Illusion 46 +1 Charisma (29) 48 Epic Skill Focus Perform, +1 Charisma (30) 50 +1 Strength (17) 51 Epic Fort 52 +1 Strength (18) 54 Iron Will, +1 Dexterity (13) 56 +1 Dexterity (14) 57 Legendary Will 58 +1 Dexterity (15) 60 Epic Reflexes, +1 Dexterity (16)
Stats at 60 (and with gear), before artifacts etc: str 18 (30) con 28 (40) cha 30 (42) dex 16 (28) int 14 wis 6 (18)
Saves at 60: F: 60 R: 60 W: 60
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Post by atomicsomething on Jun 25, 2007 9:08:47 GMT
I'm working on a caster bard build based on ideas from various bards builds posted on the forum and decided to go bard all the way, with no cheese. So, I figured this was the best place to post it for constructive criticism. (Hope that's ok with you AtomicSomething, please PM me if you'd rather I move it to a new thread). No problems, though my build will be with a full CHA progression. I still need to do a couple more layers with my older bard to log and decide what epics/feats i'm gonna take.
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Post by Yomi on Jun 26, 2007 19:42:17 GMT
I just did some tests. I used ice storm as the damage dealer, which seems to operate at a +2 or lower for penetration purposes. I had the victims remove all their damage immunity items, as we know how that works (they stack and the total percentage is applied first before all the resist and reduction). They left on their belt with Bludgeoning Resist 20/-. I tested them unbuffed, after drinking a shadow pack (standard shadow shield spell which grants +3/10), using a flag with +15/10, and then after having a level 56 caster bard sing, giving them +14/28 limit 1400 soak -- while still using the +15/10 flag. Toon with EDR3 (one feat): - Unbuffed: 20 points soaked from Damage Resist. 3 points from Damage Reduction.
- Shadow Pack: 20 points from Damage Resist. 10 points from Damage Reduction. (Ice Storm seems to have a very low +, so the +3/10 works against it, and takes over from the epic DR).
- Flag: same as shadow shield. Of course it would work against higher level weapons. Unless someone is using a +15 or better weapon, the +15/10 from the flag will take over from the epic damage reduction feat.
- Song: 20 points from Damage Resist. 28 points from Damage Reduction (limited total from song). Since that's a higher amount than the others and it works, it takes over.
It seems that yes, any soak will take over and be applied in place of the epic damage reduction. Of course that reduction doesn't have a + associated with it, so even a +16 weapon which would easily slice through the others, would still hit that. DD with inherent dr 15/- (plus some inherent DI): - Unbuffed: 20 points soaked from Damage Resist. 15 points from Damage Reduction.
- Shadow Pack: 20 points from Damage Resist. 15 points from Damage Reduction. The DD's inherent DR is higher.
- Flag: same. The DD's inherent DR is higher and therefore this flag does nothing for him.
- Song: 20 points from Damage Resist. 28 points from Damage Reduction (limited total from song). The song is higher and takes over. They do not stack.
So with ice storm on high level characters, they do not stack. The advantage of the soak item, or the epic DR feat, is when the stoneskin wears off due to the total being exceeded, or if the damage is penetrating the enhancement limit (for example +12 or lower seems to be worthless in the desert). I do not have a character with both DD DR and epic damage reduction. I've heard they stack, but I don't know how that'd work in the situation above, since the soak seems to take over. If the DD and Epic DR feats stack then I assume they add to each other to get the total amount rather than applying separately.
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Post by atomicsomething on Jun 26, 2007 20:24:58 GMT
I do not have a character with both DD DR and epic damage reduction. I've heard they stack, but I don't know how that'd work in the situation above, since the soak seems to take over. If the DD and Epic DR feats stack then I assume they add to each other to get the total amount rather than applying separately. They stack (add each other), the DD will get 24/- Damage Reduction if 22 level DD and the 3 EDR feats.
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Post by fragment on Jun 28, 2007 17:53:57 GMT
IIRC this build went to CHA 30 and tried to gain as many epics as possible. Question: Is the "epics bard" still a viable build after the recent nerfings? What do you think?
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