Post by aommaster1069 on Apr 24, 2007 22:40:27 GMT
This will be my second build on the forums. I find this build to be very well for my first tank build. Worked quite well in the testing chambers so I might build it. But for now I want to see what you guys think.
OK, first off.. The CoT Save bonus is part of the +20 from any magical means, (items, bard song, etc) therefore its almost useless to take it, maybe try blackguard, some people have found that useful.
Second, it seems you have been making builds with only mino as the subrace, there are other secret subraces that are easier to obtain that imo are much better for builds. Maybe try one of those. My opinion, if your just getting bored and deciding to make other builds, try finding a better subby, gotta get out there and join some runs for that.
You seem to be pretty creative in your builds, and perhaps could come up with some good ones, if you had other subbies to experiment with.
Midnite's Holyblazer: RDD, x2, Phleg Midnite The Lasher :LoH, x3, Tia [UE] Midnite Sorceress: Sorc, Tia Midnite Djinn, Wizard, Maladomini Midnite's Nymph [UE] Druid, Malboge [UE] Midnite, Rogue, Phleg
ditch CoT use paladin. Since you are going str build maybe ditch the wm too and splash in monk for saves and evasion. OOOOrrr do both.. start pally at one then go monk to 12 at which you can do the wm. Yes usinga shield adn heavy armor will ditch your speed bonus, but your saves would rock, and you could get mind immune if you go 20 monk. so,,,, maybe 20 monk 1 paladin 19 wm for a for a +4 ab bonus. Test that one out... you can use mino if you have to, but if you have stinger or dragonblooded (love the new immunes) it would prob be better.
damn now I gotta test this one out lol... will post a screeny in a few min
I was actually kinda happy with the results of this build. I might replace CoT with pally but I dont know yet.
Second, it seems you have been making builds with only mino as the subrace, there are other secret subraces that are easier to obtain that imo are much better for builds. Maybe try one of those.
This and Thri-Kreen are currently the only subraces I have available since I created a new account to start over fresh.
Note: Using Blackguard in place of CoT will cause in a major loss in saves and hitpoints so I dont recommend this. I am quite happy with the outcome of this build so I am gonna stick to this build exactly.
51 base ab with no gmw and only bull str cast is nice... the saves 24/24/21 will be 30 30 27 with pally bonus. Then with gear and maxed stats it will be 61 61 58 with no epic save feats yet... all you need would be a legendary luck adn you have 64 64 61. Great saves, better than average ab for a non fighter... how can you go wrong? Con is low but used dragonblooded... toss in stinger adn that prob is solved (did not relog for max hitpoints anyway)
Make what you want but I think this looks promising
One thing you don't realize in the test chamber, though, is that you have +0 saves from items. What the others were saying is that CoT saves count towards the +20 cap you can get from items. In other words, you can't add 31 to your saves here. The +31 is made up of +20 from items, +5 from legendary save increases, and +6 from maxing dexterity, constitution, and wisdom. If I'm not mistaken, you got +5 saves from your 10 CoT levels. So instead of adding +20 from items, you will only get to add +15. Not a huge deal, but your saves will be 5 lower. If all of that math is right, you'll still have pretty decent saves. And with just 4 charisma, paladin and BG aren't going to help you all that much anyway.
@ Star - 10 Con? Stinger has the same bonus to Con that Dragonblooded has, no? So how would that help? Unless you mean you could drop strength by 2 and add some to con? Still...I wouldn't feel very safe in LL areas as a tank with 10 or 14 con. You're right that 51 AB is pretty nice with just bull's strength. So perhaps drop some str for con, and/or get some great con feats. I would want at least 18 con for LL areas, and more for the hells probably.
Looks good Aom. Did you consider swapping the COT levels for more Fighter levels and doing the Epic Prowess feat swap that fighters get? Presumably you could get either more STR or CON that way.. (either would probably be a good choice, as your AB looks ok).
Stat Conversion: Fighters may exchange Epic Prowess feats for stat points, by using the PC scry. This ability is only available to them from levels 22 to 41, and is intended to allow them to gain additional stat points instead of other bonus epic fighter feats. A character with more than 21 levels of fighter can no longer delevel using the town priest.
(I don't think you can test this in the test chamber unfortunately).
If you took more Fighter you'd also get access to the fighter secret at 25 levels of fighter and Epic Dodge for free with 30 levels of fighter.
You could also put in a monk level for evasion, or perhaps forget about Epic Dodge and do 28 Fighter/5 Hs/7 Wm (the Harper Scout secret is very nice and taking Great Dexterity I & II with the 2 Harper Scout bonus feats would also boost your Reflex save by 1).
As for the saves you've posted, you're getting a +5 boost to saves from your champion of torm levels that counts towards the +20 cap (which means it'll do nothing for you once you've got gear with a combined +20 to saves....I think bardsong is included in that cap too). So your base saves are Fort:30, Reflex:23, Will:23. +5(LLs) +6(maxed Con,Dex & Wis) +20(items/bardsong) +7 (assuming you take Legendary Fort, Reflexes and Will) = Fort 68, Reflex 61, Will 61 (Which is good).
Dropping Legendary Fort and taking Legendary Luck of Heroes would probably be a better option though, which would give F: 64, R: 64, W: 64
major issue to me is that yeah the con is sweet your str is wayyyy too low at level 40 to have a useful ab. Made this mistake myself with a DD once. I told you I used the wrong subby but I was just doing a quick test. If I used stinger or mino to match yours the con would be much better on my test.
And yes bort the bard song will not stack once you cap +20 on saves.
If I went back, ditched the wm, went paly monk harper and boosted the con (instead of INT) it would be very close to your build when it come to hitpoints, but still have a superior ab and saves. As bort again pointed out why waste 3 feats on legendary saves when you can get away with using only one?
and Epic DR is a waste in my opinion. 9 points of soak at the cost of 3 feats? If you make a DD they stack and that is kinda nice, but for other fighter builds you are giving up too much for too little in return. Those feats are really only useful in low magic servers were the weapons cap at +5 with only one or two bonus damages on em.