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Post by johannhowitzer on Mar 22, 2007 4:04:01 GMT
I saw another player on HG running really fast and punching things, and realized she also had an acid sheath up... this gave me the idea for a repulsor-monk. It's obvious; Monks don't wear armor, so why not take advantage of that fact to use the enemy's power against him? Monk superior AC and decent Epic DR feats make this build capable of surviving, while the damage shields punish enemies for hitting you and supplement the build's meager damage.
Gnome - Svirfneblin, any Lawful Starting/ending abilities (race modified): STR 10 DEX 16 / 34 CON 14 / 22 INT 15 WIS 16 CHA 6
Pre-epic feats: WP Finesse, WF Unarmed, Blind Fight, Toughness, Dodge, Mobility, TWF, Combat Casting (taken as wiz bonus feat), Extend Spell, Ambidexterity, ITWF Epic feats: Great Dexterity VI, Epic Dodge, EWF, ICC, Armor Skin, DR III
I have not leveled this at all yet, I'm posting it to ask for suggestions. Dual-wielding feats were taken as a way to use kamas effectively, but I have no focus in kama, so that's dubious... the reason I even included dual-wielding was because I wasn't sure how good 45 levels of Monk would be against enemies with high-enhancement DR. Would I even be able to hurt late enemies with this build, without highly enhanced kamas? I'm not very experienced with Monks, that much should be painfully obvious. Feel free to tear this build apart.
Strengths: - Use of damage shields to make up for low melee damage - Epic Dodge - Good HP - Small size - Very fast
Weaknesses: - Not stellar AC for a monk - Low unarmed damage
I figure this build can take on most tanks, with a good HP pool and damage shields. Mages should also be no problem, just knock them down or stun them and wait for their damage shields to go away. Archers could be trouble, as would certainly pure Monks or anything that is immune to acid and fire. There are no glaring weaknesses from what I can tell, but I'm not all that experienced.
Some major tweaks could include striking DR feats and CON for more DEX, though hitting more and dodging more isn't exactly a good thing for this build. Kama focus would be ideal if that option is to be opened completely. With nice speed and Tumble, CC/ICC could be left out (just run away to re-shield!) in favor of more Great DEX or kama focus.
Suggestions?
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Post by setekhi on Mar 22, 2007 4:39:52 GMT
Lol, this looks like something for a PVP server. I'm not sure what you're getting out of Shadowdancer. HIPS doesn't do anything here, if that's what you were looking for. I would recommend Pale Master levels, you would have a way to justify the wizard levels and spells that way. You're not going to be doing huge amounts of damage with your shields either way. I wouldn't take Combat Casting unless I actually planned on regularly casting spells in combat, so axe them here. I would personally try to keep the Epic DR feats. Also put your strength at the minimum to get your more relevant ability scores up. Other than that, I would recommend reading over the suggested build guidelines and such and get a feel for the environment here. You won't be needing to knock down many mages in any case
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Post by Master Jaxx on Mar 22, 2007 6:06:49 GMT
I think the reason he took 5 SD levels is so he could get Defensive Roll and thus able to get Epic Dodge (very useful) since 9 lvls of Monk gets you the Improved Evasion requirement.
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Mar 22, 2007 6:12:53 GMT
The 5 SD are needed for epic dodge
As for the effectiveness of the acid sheaths, depends on how high you can get it damage wise (unfortunately I never use it so don't know), but you'll have a hard time matching a dwarven defender build with defensive weave (see custom changes).
As a gnome, double kama will net you a -4 to ab, even if you go pure monk pre-20 you'll still net a -5 to ab, add lack of weapon focus, epic weapon focus and epic prowess and you're already down -13 on a build that doesn't have much adding to ab. Unarmed and dual weilding doesn't really mix, you should concentrate on one or the other
Overall you're also using 2 different strategies that don't complement each other that well, high AC (and avoidance i.e. epic dodge) and damage shields. For high ac to work it needs to be higher, and for damage shields you really need very good DR and a lot of hp. The reason it works with a dwarven defender is because you don't have to sacrifice much, only use up 1 class (with 2 more to diversify for damage or more hp etc) and your controlling class gets a base 12 hp. Your level 60 hp (fully equipped) could be should be around 980, vs a DD build that shouldn't have any problems passing 1250 with much higher damage soak. Plus to get the most out of your ab you won't be taking mage levels till 21+, so at the earliest you'll get a level 10 mage's damage shields at level 30, at which point stuff will really start to hurt once it hits you and you try to avoid getting hit as much as possible.
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Post by setekhi on Mar 22, 2007 12:31:23 GMT
Oh duh. I do think though that the PM AC bonus will probably be more effective than Epic Dodge though, and it would justify some spellcasting which would otherwise be too weak to afford really. Which isn't to say your durations would be great, but I guess you could rely on Extend. Personally I notice my 15 + (20/3) caster levels for my staffmaster at 40 has pretty disappointing durations on damage shields even when extended, so I don't know how highly I'd recommend that plan, apart from the comparative damage issues.
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Post by johannhowitzer on Mar 22, 2007 12:44:55 GMT
Hm. Just seemed like an interesting idea. I mixed the high AC with damage shields even though I knew the ideas were contradictory (not getting hit = no damage to enemies). My logic was that I don't want to get hit too much, but if I do, I want the enemies to pay. Does that make sense? Given that idea, probably a dwarven monk/defender/wiz would be better, and not doing anything with kamas will also free up some feats. Thanks for the advice; I'll get right on adjusting things and maybe post a new build!
EDIT: I am finding that building a Monk and DD together with levels of Wizard requires too many ability scores to be practical. You need STR for damage and AB, DEX 13 for Dodge but a low enough DEX to have lower AC for damage shields, high CON to survive, medium INT for spells, medium WIS to make Monk practical...! That's 5 ability scores. It will be possible once I get the Battlerager or Howler subraces - free Dodge and Toughness feats - but until then, I'd better just settle for a tank with no damage shields, yes?
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Post by Yomi on Mar 22, 2007 20:59:37 GMT
I have a couple caster archers (35 sorc 2AA, 36 wiz 3AA). They can put up damage shields as well as get high conceal and quite high AC. I discovered that while this was nice in lower levels, eventually my AC and conceal got high enough that hardly any of the normal monsters hit me. This is a good thing of course, but I felt a little silly having the damage shields up while they swished. The tough monsters that did hit me were mostly unfazed by the damage the shields did. They were either heavily immune / resistant or it did so little damage as to be insignificant vs. our active damage. One exception might be acid sheath and screelings (screelings have a pretty high ab and are very vulnerable to acid).
I do use them for their immunity properties however. It's quite useful to be able to cast endure elements for 9% to all, elemental shield for 50% fire/cold, acid sheath for 18% acid, energy buffer for 56/- (max 2900) points. and premonition for +14 soak 46 (max 2800) points. However, that is with 56 caster levels. Your 10 levels is going to do:
EB max of 60 points -- no better than a scroll Acid Sheath of 20+1d6 with 3% acid immunity Elemental Shield of 10+1d6 with 50% fire/50% cold Stoneskin +5 soak 10 max 100 (useless in higher level areas) Endure Elements for 1% immunity to all.
I'm also concerned that your spells with only 10 caster levels are going to last a terribly short time, and you won't have many spell slots. My wizard/AA with 56 caster levels is still trying to cast all of these extended, and uses two pieces of caster gear to get more spell slots. Your damage shields, even cast extended, are going to last all of 2 turns. Ouch. Having played a Baneknight, this short duration is going to drive you crazy if it's even long enough to work at all. If you cast these when the party's buffing you're going to discover them dropping while still fighting the first mob.
I wish I wasn't raining on the parade, just putting some of my experiences with these types.
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