You could get away with the Self Conceal changes you suggest for now. If Blindfight is added to spawns then your going to want all Self Conceals pretty quick as anything less than Self Conceal V just doesnt cut it with Blindfight mobs.
Self Conceal V rocks in a huge way on the immo run, my AA (with a discipline of something pathetic due to having no classes that have it as a preferred choice) has yet to be disarmed on an immo run and I've done more that I'd care to count with him. Surrounded buy four Vrocks, no problem just fill them full of arrows whilst watching them flap around aimlessly at your 50% Self Concealment (backed up with a decent ac obviously). I can't stress this enough "Get it as soon as you can!"
Original notes: After playing my other build to 40 immo as well as the feedback received, I wasn't happy with the feat progression and ending stats of the character. This is basically a tweak of that character, using fighter levels instead of WM and shorting the Monk 3 levels to increase BAB.
The only thing still up in the air with this build is whether I should substitute Great Dex 6 and 7 (moving them to LL) for Self-Concealment 1 and 2 pre-LL. (I imagine 20% concealment would help on immo run)
Tweaked this build a bit further. Changed race to Dwarf, added 2 additional fighter levels (post epic) which gains you an extra feat. (at the cost of skill points - a good tradeoff imho).
I also moved all the self-concealment feats to epic levels which puts Great Dex 2-8 in LL. This does remove one of the Great Dex feats, but I realized that if you took great dex 9, you would end your dex on an odd number - so instead I kept the weapon specialization feat.
I was just thinking about something similar to this as well Jillybean, and wondered what your thoughts were on swapping in Fighter for WM. I was going to go with WM, but the feats required are crazy, and a kama only has a 20 crit range anyway. So with Improved Crit it becomes 19-20, and WM would, I think, make it 18-20. Not horrible, but nothing like the 15-20 crit range you see on a lot of other builds. So, in your opinion, was taking fighter over WM more worth your while?
BTW - I was thinking of using Thri-Kreen, to get Ambidexterity and Alertness (HS pre-req) for free, along with +'s to dex and wis. A good choice? Or should I pick a dwarf instead, as you mentioned in your last post?
Post by Lord FlashHeart on Sept 25, 2006 17:06:26 GMT
Wm kama build is 16-20 x3 (with keen). Kama builds are interesting and I have made quite a few now, the balance has to come between attacks per round THAT HIT and the amount of damage done per hit. I can see you have gone for 'max attacks per round' for this one but is far better to have 10 attacks per round that all hit than 12 with some that dont. So basically ab is very important as you are looking to hit with all of your attacks. My 2 favourite kama builds I have done are 2monk/28wm/10fighter and 30 Ranger/3monk/7WM. The former is an absolute beast in melee but has slightly low ac for a dexer (although still better than strengthys) and no conceal, while the latter has slightly less ab (quite close against racial enemies) but gets 40% conceal from camouflage, extra speed from FoM and the nice ranger summons. I'm still using my Ranger kama build atm (Hermione Ranger), and I quite like how she's turned out - she's on hold atm until I get a db kama though, then I'll know exactly how effective she is.
Very interesting...thanks for the info FlashHeart. I was just writing in Bort's monk build, and he also discussed going with Ranger. It's also interesting that both of your kama builds use minimal levels of Monk. I was looking to make Monk my control class, but perhaps that's not necessary (or even a great idea), with some of the items on the server (haste, immunity to disease/poison, etc, etc, etc).
How is the damage on either toon? Crit's seem decent, at 16-20 x3, but just wondering how overall damage is compared to other dexer builds (your Evadey Slappy build, or the Halfling Death build, or a monk build that has monk as controlling class)?
Post by Lord FlashHeart on Sept 25, 2006 17:42:06 GMT
Damage on a crit ranges from 150 (in illithids) to 250 (on stingers) with the random 35 kama. The fighter/wm build does a little more due to having epic weapon specialisation. The damage is comparable to any other x2 base crit weapon, and it does seem to make alot of crits despite the range (due to amount of attacks).
It can be very amusing when you get a 'jammy crit fest' and connect with about 5 crits in a row.
I have another build posted on this board that has WM instead of fighter. I realized (too late - after immo) that you can get a higher AB by using fighter instead. This build represents that knowledge.
My primary goal wasn't necessarily "max attacks a round" but Monk as a control class. I really liked to play monks in the OC and wanted a build that would work well on higher ground. While planning this I started with 40 monk then worked backwards until I found a balance between attacks/AB and Monk (basically).
I do think that taking fighter over WM was very worthwhile - which is the #1 reason I redid the build. As you mention the feats required for WM not only use up many useful feats pre-epic, you can't meet the requirements early enough to get in more then 5 levels pre-epic.
You could switch out Thr-Kreen for this build (Especially if you have it!) and it was the sub-race I was originally thinking about for this build. You will lose some int - so maybe less skills but you could also take the points you are saving on wisdom to even it out. You will also lose a point of Dex (which is the reason I decided to go with Wraith). Dwarf isn't a necessity - but the +2 Con and fighter as a favored class is nice. With the two feats you pick up from Thri-Kreen you can fit in Great Dex 9 and 10 which will definitely help.
Thanks for the feedback Jillybean. I think that the WM levels do seem to be too large of a requirement for little payback; so I think I'll end up using Fighter. Level breakdown is still in question, but I'll figure that out with some calculations of my own. I saw your first Banzai build, so I looked over it too. But this seems a bit better. Using Thri-Kreen allows Human race, so favored class isn't a problem. So I think Ftr/Monk/HS is the way to go for me. And I'm with you, that I'd like to have monk as my control class.