|
Post by Acaos on Jan 5, 2009 15:55:06 GMT
As a suggestion to relieve the stress of barding (not a suggestion to the problem of bards being so necessary), could treasure scent be changed to a targetable buff with a long duration so that a bard with treasure scent needs only cast it once per rest on the looter? That way some of the issue of waiting on the bard to loot could be relieved by having the job handed off to a more flexible character (extra tank etc...) Actually, Treasure Scent is specifically designed the way it is for a reason - if you want more loot, you have to pay for it. Acaos
|
|
|
Post by sabregirl on Jan 5, 2009 16:18:41 GMT
That way some of the issue of waiting on the bard to loot could be relieved by having the job handed off to a more flexible character (extra tank etc...) There's always just . . . NOT using treasure scent. Nobody is forcing you to use it and the increase in loot is fairly minimal really. As a bard player myself I did NOT take treasure scent partly because I realized being asked to loot had a major negative impact on my ability to perform my job. Simply because the party will frequently decide to spawn while looting is going on. I did it for a few runs and now refuse to put up with the annoyance. -S
|
|
|
Post by uncanny on Jan 5, 2009 17:40:59 GMT
I've seen little evidence so far that TS even helps. I've been on lower Hells runs with a bard using TS at every loot opportunity, and the loot was worse than a horrible TIA run. Then I've been on TIA runs with amazing loot and no bard for miles. Over several dozen runs with TS at every loot pile and around the same again without TS being used, I've seen no tangible difference.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 19:52:38 GMT
I'd echo DB, Egg and some of others here. Bard play in hell is the most intense experience that I've had in any game. There is simply so much to do.
I had a bard tagged down to Malad and stopped playing it when our daughter was born. The run stops (or should stop) when the bard goes afk which is inevitable at some point with kids in the house.
There is no other class like it and I've played most casters to some degree in hell runs.
|
|
|
Post by Ford Prefect on Jan 6, 2009 1:52:30 GMT
Finish the rework of Warchanters. There have been a lot of ideas submitted, so lets finish those up - I know I would love to get mine active again. Hear, hear! I'll admit a big of a fixation with some of the odder classes/quasiclasses that are rarely played, and after demi'ing one of my two bards, I reincarnated him into a warchanter thinking "great! lvl 57 bard song/curse, a STR that would make a Pit fiend weep in agony, IoF, Gird, UUU, a million HP and an AC of 141!" How can you go wrong with that? Oh... nuts... UUU is broken. I still love the idea of the warchanter class, and I'm parking the toon, not reincarnating it because I really do like the idea of waddling my pompus posterior up to some of the bigger mobs in the game, cursing, and then soaking up damage rather than scampering back behind the tank-line.
|
|
|
Post by illandous on Jan 6, 2009 14:23:55 GMT
A few points.
Love the bard, I have two of them. I agree it's not the typical mindset of a tank or a caster. Some people don't like to play a support class. Eh.
The song that bards have is there strenght, it's what they bring to the party. A tank brings the sword, a wizard brings the spell book, a cleric brings the diety. A bard, well brings a voice.
I'm happy if a bard just gets everything cursed, everything else is bonus. Just like I'm happy if a tank is in combat. Just like if a mage casts spells. This is the bare miniumum. I'm glad they gave bards some spells and the taunt. It makes all the marginal stuff add up to something significant if you play a bard right. Same with every other class.
I'm also with Saber, I've found that I don't use Treasure Scent at all. I also will not bank as a bard anymore. Its not personal, it's that when I'm playing a bard, I have to much to do already. Not to mention if the puller starts pulling while your trying to bank. Then your stuck way out of position and things go to hell in a handbasket.
I'm also with DB. Make a bard. If you don't like playing a bard, well then, you can stop complaining about not haveing one. This goes for clerics, mages, and tanks.
I don't like to play tanks. I just never have to complain about getting a tank to join the party. Everyone complains about the bard.
-Ill
|
|
|
Post by gren on Jan 6, 2009 17:25:00 GMT
Like Ill says above, I'm one of those that never really got on with bards. Mine is a pure caster bard languishing at level 42, never played him for around 6 months, certainly before TS was added. I just think I never really got to grips with the idea of being a support character - maybe more important than any other member of the party (they must be if they are about the only class that alone can abort a hell run) but not killing stuff......less satisfying perhaps?
It's certainly not any lack of excitement in the class for me as I prefer to play tanks and many here find them intensely boring!
It would be a step in the right direction though if TS could be targeted on others. Not many of us like to bank and almost forcing it on the bard may just tip the balance for many.
|
|
|
Post by MurphysLawAgain on Jan 6, 2009 18:45:38 GMT
I do think that TS would work well as a buff that auto-recast on another person. The bard is very busy and having some doofus pulling the next spawn and a random while you are way to the back picking up Greater Eagle Leather is deeply frustrating. Another approach would be to make Treasure Sense a rogue ability instead. Perhaps the spell be removed and the new ability working from (Appraise + Lore) / 80. I think that would work fairly well, and take the pressure off the bard who really doesn't need more to do.
|
|
|
Post by stonewarrior on Jan 6, 2009 19:05:40 GMT
A few thoughts...
I find playing my Bard to be the least boring off all of my toons. I would agree that if you are bored you are not doing your job or you are doing Tia / Dis with an sick party that can get along without a Bard. Personally, I find my pure Fighter boring...he has no special abilities other then the Touch of Vecna...it is just swing, swing and swing again. I can read the forums while he continues to swing. Meh...boring...
I am of the opinion that the Bard controls the tempo of a run. If you choose to loot...yes I wrote CHOOSE to loot then the party waits for you to loot or the mobs don't get cursed. I remember a run where the spawner was told "the next mob you spawn while I am looting does not get cursed". What happened? The next mob was fought without the benefit of being cursed. It was the last mob not cursed on that run. Whether I am Barding or playing another class I usually will offer to bank because I am one of the few who enjoys it. I do not care if TS is cast...if the Bard does not have it or want to use it then so be it. They have plenty to do.
All of you who think a Bard is required to do certain things? Reconsider what you are "required" to do. You need to Sing and Curse first and foremost. After that a few buffs such as Defeaning Clang and perhaps GMW would be nice. After that Taunting and using Epics and ideally a little Spell casting. Now what is different from this and playing a Mage, Cleric or Druid? Yeah, it is more consuming then your typical tank (Caster Tanks being the exception) but certainly no more then an active Caster.
Finally, if you think the server needs more Bards then build one. I am pretty sure I have a Chaos Gnome book I will give to anyone who wants to build a Bard. Hell, I may even still have an Undying book...if so I will give it to anyone who will make a Bard with it. Why Undying you ask? Because I have seen Drunkenboaster's Undying Bard and it rocks.
|
|
|
Post by cathedralmaster on Jan 6, 2009 20:14:38 GMT
There's always just . . . NOT using treasure scent. Finally, if you think the server needs more Bards then build one. I play this game for fun, not because it's my job. I don't get paid to play on HG. I had a bard. I leveled it to 60. It sucked playing it. I don't find bards fun. A lot of people don't seem to find bards fun. Yet we're dependent on convincing someone to play one - and that's only true for bards. Up to Cania, you can get by without a cleric, without a mage, without a druid, without a particular class of tank, etc. (I did Cania without shunt back before everyone was loaded up on BURs so it's certainly doable). So why should we be required to build one? This game is about having fun. The more elements that are unfun, the less people are going to be motivated to play. There is always going to be some work involved, of course, but telling people who don't like playing bards to make a bard is telling people to make a ridiculously massive investment of unfun work if they want to keep playing. NWN is 6 and a half years old now, there are plenty of other games competing for our time. How many people have cut back their play time or even left because they got fed up wasting hours trying to form parties just because the mod requires someone to play one particular class of character that half the time nobody wants to play.
|
|
|
Post by stonewarrior on Jan 6, 2009 20:45:58 GMT
Cath - my comment is aimed at those who have not attempted a Bard...which is why I have offered to give away races to build one.
|
|
|
Post by Trazik on Jan 7, 2009 10:56:18 GMT
... one of the reasons I have been trying to get some love for str-bards. Still a bard, but nowhere near as "boring" to play as a caster bard. Before too long I am going to post my build (those of you who know me know that I have not posted any of mine, so this says something) as further encouragement. Given the small number of successful dex bards around, it would be helpful if the good ones were posted *cough* Acaos *cough* prolly-too-busy-to-do-it *cough* but-helpful-anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Egg on Jan 7, 2009 13:15:43 GMT
I am of the opinion that the Bard controls the tempo of a run. If you choose to loot...yes I wrote CHOOSE to loot then the party waits for you to loot or the mobs don't get cursed. I remember a run where the spawner was told "the next mob you spawn while I am looting does not get cursed". What happened? The next mob was fought without the benefit of being cursed. Sounds like a Sabre comment if ever I heard one! And I totally agree with it.
|
|
|
Post by eternal on Jan 7, 2009 19:26:16 GMT
I am pretty sure I have a Chaos Gnome book I will give to anyone who wants to build a Bard. Hell, I may even still have an Undying book...if so I will give it to anyone who will make a Bard with it. Why Undying you ask? Because I have seen Drunkenboaster's Undying Bard and it rocks. You know, I always wanted to make a bard but was waiting to get a decent subby to do it with, I'll take you up on this if you're serious. Log in is xXEternal_IndecisionXx
|
|
|
Post by stonewarrior on Jan 7, 2009 19:35:21 GMT
Find me in game...I am likely to be logged in as The_Stonewarrior or some variation.
|
|