|
Post by Yojimbo on Apr 2, 2010 23:01:18 GMT
I suggest Derrzagon for double weapons/dual wield for two reasons. First the DEX needed for all 3 feats is already met second there are more optional feats with it than with Drider. To my knowledge all large weapons can be one handed including scythe and double weapons. I haven't tested it myself but was told you do not get off hand attacks with a large toon on double weapons. You might if you aren't wielding a shield but then it seems pointless. Dual Wielding, actually wield two weapons, is possible large but you can't do large + large only large + medium and medium + medium. Being large is mostly fo fun and for the larger base damage of some of the large weapons. I did Drider firstly for asthetic reasons but it just shows that it works and works well.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Apr 3, 2010 18:31:15 GMT
Well, I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but according to the testing I just did: Not only can you not wield anything in your off hand (weapon or shield) while holding a scythe in one hand, but every other Large weapon I tried gave me the same results.
Again, I could be missing something important (maybe a simtools command or something?), but from what I've seen, a Drider can wield a Large weapon in one hand--but you can't equip anything in your off hand. So what's the point?
If this is true, there seems to be no benefit whatsoever to being Large when it comes to wielding weapons (I guess it still comes in handy for monk damage and kd checks), so I'm not so sure about wanting to make a Drider anymore.
I'm also wondering why I couldn't wield a Huge mercurial greatsword. I guess the mechanics of this are different in NWN than from true D&D, but the way it should work is that a Large creature can wield a Huge weapon as a two-handed weapon, just as a Medium creature can wield a Large weapon in two hands. Alright, so Bioware didn't get it right. But why is that weapon even available if it can't be used by a Large creature (I would further ask why the mercurial greatsword was even made Huge in the first place, rather than simply a Large exotic as it should be--but that's a question for the CEP developers)?
If my Large toon can't wield two Large weapons or a Large weapon and a shield, and he can't wield a Huge weapon in both hands--what's the point?
Considering all these things that seem strange to me, I'm thinking that I wasn't doing something right.
|
|
|
Post by KnightErrant on Apr 3, 2010 18:40:11 GMT
You need to relog to use a large weapon and shield....only large weapons you can dual weild are Trident and Spear...(No bioware graphics for any other large weapons iirc ?)
KE.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Apr 3, 2010 18:43:10 GMT
Ah, alright. I remember reading that now...I knew I was just being dumb.
Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Yojimbo on Apr 5, 2010 18:44:55 GMT
I had to check and make sure I put that note in there about needing to relog for size change to take effect and it is. Large size though is more about fun and asthetics than being practical.
|
|
|
Post by egomainaik on Dec 6, 2010 0:49:21 GMT
nice toon. noticed that there is no feat selection at lvl 4 using Derrzagon. i like this toon. solid toon for a newbie that runs tanks like myself. would you be willing to show LL final saves for Derrzagon as the sub-race? thank you for the post
ego
|
|
|
Post by egomainaik on Dec 6, 2010 4:18:34 GMT
with goes with the saves question i asked. would it work better in the long run (to 60) saves if you swapped lvl 18 Brb. feat-iron will to lighting reflex, and WM feat lvl 21 from epic reflex to epic will, adding 2 point to will save of (will save) 11 and (reflex) 15, as apposed to the feat projection you have offered up to 40 at least, (will, 9 and reflex, 17). fort remained the same up to lvl 22.
does this work from lvl 41 up to 60? any info would be welcomed.
ego
|
|
|
Post by Yojimbo on Dec 6, 2010 15:52:52 GMT
Iron Will is required for Legendary Will so it can't be removed saves will be sufficient until LLs and Legendary Will will be taken early in LLs so it won't be a problem for long. The Derrzagon Lvl 60 Saves is +1 Reflex and +1 Fortitude unless you drop the 2 Great Constitutions. You might be able to reorder the save feats but it won't matter much you need to take Iron Will and Legendary Will.
|
|
|
Post by Yojimbo on Dec 30, 2010 14:58:38 GMT
This build has been reincarnated and upgraded to a Stinger which plays a lot easier than a Drider just due to the fact there are less issues with the size/model getting stuck. The original build and the Stinger different very little just slightly higher stat numbers all around for the Stinger and no Fire penalty making it just a touch easier to survive. I will try and keep the open varient up to date for any HG changes.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Dec 30, 2010 21:27:18 GMT
issues with the size/model getting stuck. Yeah, after my last attempt at a Drider I decided once and for all to never do one again. Despite the fact that I tell myself this *every* time, I think his time it's "for real". I just cannot stand the collision factor on the Drider; it's a huge pain and beyond irritating to deal with, whether you're trying to access a placeable or even just get through a doorway. In fact, I have found that there are several spots in which, unless I just couldn't do it right, it's actually impossible to get a Drider through. Primary example would be the doorway to the Lava King's cavern. I'ts entirely possible that I just wasn't patient enough to figure out a way to get in there, but I sat there for at least 5 minutes (closer to 10, but I don't want to exaggerate) trying to maneuver my Drider toon past those torch/brazier things partially blocking the cave entrance to no avail. Eventually I just gave up and ported. Suffice to say that example is merely one of many, albeit the most recent and by far most irritating one I have experienced. Sorry to drop a little rant here,; hope you don't mind polluting your thread a bit with it. Just couldn't help but let this all come out after reading your comment. Basically from the starting areas on, playing a Drider results in undue amounts of frustration (at least for me). Speaking of starting areas, in fact, trying to navigate the stone pathways in Underdark - Lake/River are absolute torture. I love the Drider apperance; I love having access to an open subbie of Large size; I've made over a dozen Drider toons and more or less enjoyed them--but I honestly don't think I have the patience or desire to ever play one again. Factor in the disappointing racial abilities, and this case is closed for me. Picking this subrace is, in my opinion, 100% based on its size and the fact that it is "open". Everything else about it pretty much sucks. It's disappointing to me to even rant on this long about it, but after countless hours of pent-up aggravation from trying, and failing, to do the simplest things in regards to accessing placeables--I can't help myself. Again, my apologies for this inapporpriately-placed post and feel free to remove it.
|
|
|
Post by Yojimbo on Dec 30, 2010 21:35:35 GMT
I loved my Drider but it does frustrate and the issues make it so that in Hell, Abyss and other Limbo/Fugue areas for Immos you could be a problem for the party. It is infrequent enough that I never minded but the times it happens well you spend 5 minutes easy trying to get past an obstruction or getting unstuck. The is supposedly an unstuck command but I forget it as it has never once worked for me.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Dec 30, 2010 21:43:05 GMT
Yeah, after many unsuccessful attempts with that command I also stopped even bothering with it.
Anyway, just for the benefit of any players reading this and considering using this build: All Drider-based complaints aside, I don't mean to in any way dissuade you from trying the this Eight-Legged Master, as it is surely one of the best ways to pull off a Large WM with an open subrace. I think Yojimbo has done some great work here, and although I haven't actually used this exact build, my own attempts at Drider WMs (speccing in scythe, greatsword, and mercurial greatsword in general) have been tons of fun in combat and at least marginally successful.
Just felt the need to add that as a disclaimer after that last post...
;D
|
|
|
Post by Yojimbo on Dec 3, 2011 6:24:05 GMT
Minor edits
|
|
|
Post by vorshlumpf on Dec 3, 2011 7:30:30 GMT
Looks like you changed the order of the class level selection (e.g., Barb is no longer the 20th level). Do you mind giving an explanation why?
I just reached level 20 with this guy - love him! (awkward, spindly legs and all)
- Niilo
|
|
|
Post by Yojimbo on Dec 3, 2011 7:52:59 GMT
That must have been an old change but it doesn't matter if it is at 18 or 20 there really isn't any skill dumps for Fighter or Barbarian on this build.
|
|