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Post by Lan on Jan 18, 2010 21:39:25 GMT
OK, thanks for that, im gonna go pure I think, I can live with low saves and I think gate will make up for the AC loss. Still not sure weather to use the Divine Agony heavy armour or Pristine Way, im guessing once i'm tagged tagged that deep i can try both and see how it works out.
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Post by phalthallus on Jan 19, 2010 1:13:51 GMT
I wear Divine Agony on mine - I much prefer the spellslots on it, not to mention the higher physical immunities. I do, however, have to swap to Pristine + a torch on Phleg and the last map of Nessus, to avoid slagging.
As a reference point, the AC on my pure Cleric is 123 when wearing a tower shield and Divine Agony, and casting Magic Vestment on the shield. That's with ESF: Abjuration, which I highly recommend on a Cleric with mediocre AC. The 50% immunity to one element from Energy Immunity can help quite a bit, as does the epic.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with splashing. I think it definitely has its merits. I just really enjoy having the option of being pure or splashing, and think either one can't go wrong really.
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Post by Rain on Jan 19, 2010 2:47:33 GMT
I've talked to some ppl about splash vs. pure cleric in game but anyway this is a summary of my opinion:
Splash: Advantage: about 8-9 more saves, 110 discipline, 130+AC, no need to worry about slagging in hell, about 1 or 2 more feat to spend on Disadvantage: 2 less spell penetration, 1 less -save/skill from battletide.
Pure: Advantage: 2 more spell penetration, 1 more -save/skill from battletide Disadvantage: Low save/AC/Disicpline, have to switch to robe/torch in hell to make 100% sure u won't get slagged
In a word, it's all a offense vs. defense. I don't think I can say which is obviously over the other although personally I'd think splash cleric is more solid since I've never played pure cleric. I can't remember when my cleric last died in hell, but I can be 100%sure it's either a kd then mob swarm or insta kill. He's got 132regen per round plus 132AC, unless kd'ed he's hard to get damaged(as long as you have the right immunity on). the thing about a pure cleric with low save/AC is, quite a few insta save check are on hit, no matter the mob can damage you or not, once they hit you and you fail the save, you die/paralyse/dom. Anyway I think high regen is feasible on both splash cleric and pure cleric, although pure cleric is more of replying on soak for defense thus plate fits pure cleric more than robe. But I bet you wanna switch to robe/torch for some place like phleg/nessus, in my experience 99% of the pure armor'ed cleric in phleg/nessus had their armor/shield slagged(I just canot recall when that 1% was but nothing is too absolute, there is always pure cleric with LSA:discipline).
Anyway, I think not picking necromancy foci on a pure cleric is a huge waste of the evil spell:heartbane. I'd definately take necro foci on the good cleric if heartbane wasnot an evil-aligned spell(actually I did have necro foci on my previous good cleric tho couldnot cast heartbane). For a cleric, there're just too many benefit from Necro foci(mass inflict wound,destruction,U2D,heartbane,control undead. in the RP aspect, I think a cleric is born a master in both Evocation and Necromancy schools) , way over Abj/Enchantment.
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Post by Lan on Jan 19, 2010 13:29:25 GMT
Thats a lot to think about, but I'm getting the impression that if I go pure, I may as well go evil to get best use of necro focus and hartbane..
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Post by phalthallus on Jan 19, 2010 15:04:15 GMT
Absolutely. If you go pure, and/or don't use the Paladin saves splash, take Necro, and be evil. Heartbane is so important and so nice, as are the other reasons Rain mentioned in his post. In addition, level drain is nice, and the epic itself is very nice as well. If a run goes south, and people start dying, and you follow suit, you come back in GS, and can instantly Miracle to (hopefully) save the run.
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Post by Lan on Jan 19, 2010 18:53:57 GMT
Thats it sorted then, I'll go with the pure evil build. Thanks for all your help guys.
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Post by Rain on May 22, 2010 5:57:19 GMT
Updated the Evil Cleric Build to reflect my newest reinc Abyssal Cleric. It is highly effective in abyss/abo/ely as well as in hell.
Also, I added a "Abyss Cleric Spell Guide" under the spell choice in evil cleric build, so as to show which spell to work on which monster.
If you plan to play a cleric in Abyss, no matter it's caster cleric or turner, I strongly suggest you read it, cuz it'll definately make it a lot easier to get started.
And as to the new build, saves are pretty ok for me atm. Having done a few abyss run with this cleric and so far has 0 death yet, especially when considering I'm playing in a leeroy way. Also, you might wanna argue about no LSF:Div right? Tbh, LSF:Div is really a waste on a tight feat cleric. The reason is simple. LSF:Div only means x2 your total Gate damage, which in fact is equal to x2 your lvl 9 Gate slots only. So do you really think that +3 or +4 lvl 9 spellslots worth a legendary feat when you can surely choose something to better you offense(banishment) and defense(50%EI). Anyway, I'm using aboleth torch on this so it's not a big loss. But you can definately live without abo torch, just need to mem a few more Gates if you don't know how to avoid being flat footed. Dodge rate on this cleric from log are mostly 85%ish, so even without Gate, the defense is not bad at all.
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Post by Rain on Jun 1, 2010 13:07:47 GMT
As a request, I've listed my usual spellbook for Abyss. But note this is not exactly what my spellbook is set to in every abyss run cuz there're spells useful for some special areas(read Abyss Spell Instruction for these spells). Anyway this is averagely the most essential spells for most runs.
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Post by Naeblis on Nov 30, 2010 14:29:28 GMT
Thanks for sharing the build Rain. I am very interested in the Samael version but the Abyss spellbook no longer shows in your post. Is that something you can re-add?
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Post by Klipkap on Mar 9, 2011 11:22:24 GMT
Hi Rain; Your spell book images no longer load. Still, having read your post regarding spells, I don't see much reference to the use of empowered spells even though your evil cleric has the feat.
I would be interested to see how you get a spellbook balance with this option.
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Post by digs on Mar 9, 2011 12:30:34 GMT
I think Empower Spell is primarily used for Destructions and Mass Inflicts. It's also useful for getting more Heartbanes.
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Post by anar12 on Mar 9, 2011 12:37:46 GMT
I've talked to some ppl about splash vs. pure cleric in game but anyway this is a summary of my opinion: Splash: Advantage: about 8-9 more saves, 110 discipline, 130+AC, no need to worry about slagging in hell, about 1 or 2 more feat to spend on Disadvantage: 2 less spell penetration, 1 less -save/skill from battletide. Pure: Advantage: 2 more spell penetration, 1 more -save/skill from battletide Disadvantage: Low save/AC/Disicpline, have to switch to robe/torch in hell to make 100% sure u won't get slagged In a word, it's all a offense vs. defense. I don't think I can say which is obviously over the other although personally I'd think splash cleric is more solid since I've never played pure cleric. I can't remember when my cleric last died in hell, but I can be 100%sure it's either a kd then mob swarm or insta kill. He's got 132regen per round plus 132AC, unless kd'ed he's hard to get damaged(as long as you have the right immunity on). the thing about a pure cleric with low save/AC is, quite a few insta save check are on hit, no matter the mob can damage you or not, once they hit you and you fail the save, you die/paralyse/dom. Anyway I think high regen is feasible on both splash cleric and pure cleric, although pure cleric is more of replying on soak for defense thus plate fits pure cleric more than robe. But I bet you wanna switch to robe/torch for some place like phleg/nessus, in my experience 99% of the pure armor'ed cleric in phleg/nessus had their armor/shield slagged(I just canot recall when that 1% was but nothing is too absolute, there is always pure cleric with LSA:discipline). Anyway, I think not picking necromancy foci on a pure cleric is a huge waste of the evil spell:heartbane. I'd definately take necro foci on the good cleric if heartbane wasnot an evil-aligned spell(actually I did have necro foci on my previous good cleric tho couldnot cast heartbane). For a cleric, there're just too many benefit from Necro foci(mass inflict wound,destruction,U2D,heartbane,control undead. in the RP aspect, I think a cleric is born a master in both Evocation and Necromancy schools) , way over Abj/Enchantment. 12 rounds long extended GR vs 10 from splashed cleric cleric with heavy armour + shield gets around 70% physical immunity which combined with proper elemental/exotic immunities makes you really hard to kill even if they can hit you; that's why divine chorus (elysium cleric plate) is so important on a pure cleric: it has 35% phys imm + extra spell penetration to further improve stats that work in your favour
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Post by Rain on Mar 9, 2011 14:26:53 GMT
Fixed the screenies.
Empower spell is mainly for Heartbane on lvl 6 spellslots cuz you can get lots of 6 slots from tia items yet there arenot many useful spells there. Also Empower Blade Barrior and Empower Enervation are always in my spellbook as well. Emp Destruction is good in a few boss fights(asmo, meph, tia mainly). I also find Empower Banishment/Undeath to Death/Word of Faith is good in areas I don't need to load many GRs such as Elysium and Aboleth. Empower (Mass) Inflict wound spells can tear quite some stuff apart as long as they take neg damage, though mainly in Minauros, Elysium and Hive.
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