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Post by phalthallus on Dec 20, 2008 15:19:32 GMT
One thing to remember with a Bard, especially a caster one, is that you don't need to get anywhere near 63 base UMD to use scrolls. You need spell level + 25, so 34 for level 9 spells. If you assume 60 or so for Charisma, that's a 25 modifier right there (since UMD is a charisma-based skill). So a few points, plus Bard Song, should be plenty.
I'm personally taking 40 on my dex Bard, because he'll have less Charisma, and also because 40 UMD opens up some different gear options I wouldn't normally have. 60 would open up even more options, though none that I've found necessary.
So basically the moral of this story is if you're short on skill points, but want to cast from scrolls, you could spend 40 points in UMD and be fine most everywhere. I believe the biggest skill point hit from Hells penalties is in Nessus with 1x demi pens, and I think that's -20 to skills. So if you have base 40 + 25 (from 60 Charisma) = 65 - 20 (pens) = 45 = more than enough for casting level 9 spells from scrolls (again, requires 34 UMD). So you could technically lower that to 29 base, and always be able to cast spells from scrolls, without your own song, if I'm not mistaken.
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Post by mishimayukio on Apr 11, 2009 21:01:50 GMT
Here is an update, on a uni-tank version with reasonable saves and extremely resilient. The only real downside to this is about 1/3 less ticks on aura epics, and 3 possums instead of 5. (Click to enlarge.) Stat | Creation | 60/w items | demigod | STR | 14 | (38) | [42] | DEX | 18 | (36) | [40] | CON | 18 | (30) | [34] | INT | 14 | (26) | [30] | WIS | 8 | (20) | [24] | CHA | 18 | (36) | [42] |
Skills: Concentration 63, Discipline 63, Listen 63, Parry 63, Perform 63, Taunt 63, Tumble 60, Use Magic Device 63 1 Bard (16 HP) Artist Strong Soul 2 Bard (16 HP) 3 Bard (16 HP) Curse Song 4 Bard (16 HP) (Strength +1) 5 Bard (16 HP) 6 Bard (16 HP) Metamagic (Extend Spell) 7 Bard (16 HP) 8 Bard (16 HP) (Strength +1) 9 Bard (16 HP) Spell Penetration 10 Bard (16 HP) 11 Bard (16 HP) 12 Bard (16 HP) (Strength +1) Greater Spell Penetration 13 Bard (16 HP) 14 Bard (16 HP) 15 Bard (16 HP) Spell Focus (Enchantment) 16 Bard (16 HP) (Strength +1) 17 Bard (16 HP) 18 Bard (16 HP) Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) 19 Bard (16 HP) 20 Bard (16 HP) (Strength +1) 21 Bard (6 HP) Spell Focus (Illusion) 22 Bard (6 HP) 23 Bard (6 HP) Greater Spell Focus (Illusion) 24 Bard (6 HP) (Strength +1) Epic Spell Penetration 25 Bard (6 HP) 26 Bard (6 HP) Great Charisma I 27 Bard (6 HP) Perf +30 Epic Skill Focus (Perform) 28 Bard (6 HP) (Strength +1) 29 Bard (6 HP) Great Charisma II 30 Bard (6 HP) Spell Focus (Divination) 31 Bard (6 HP) 32 Bard (6 HP) (Strength +1) Greater Spell Focus (Divination) 33 Bard (6 HP) Spell Focus (Transmutation) 34 Bard (6 HP) 35 Bard (6 HP) Greater Spell Focus (Transmutation) 36 Bard (6 HP) (Charisma +1) Great Charisma III 37 Bard (6 HP) 38 Bard (6 HP) Great Charisma IV 39 Bard (6 HP) Armor Skin 40 Bard (6 HP) (Charisma +1) Legendary Levels: +4 str, +6 dex Epic Spell Focus (Divination) Epic Spell Focus (Enchantment) Epic Spell Focus (Illusion) Epic Spell Focus (Transmutation) Legendary Spell Focus (Illusion) Legendary Spell Penetration Legendary Saving Throw (Hardened Soul) Tome: Necromancy Pandect: Craft armor Artifact:Charisma, also viable are dex or str, just subtract 2 points from the stat's artifact you used, and add them into charisma. On a nondemi version, I would subtract 2 str and 2 dex in exchange for 4 charisma with your LL stat points.
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Post by starlandra on Apr 20, 2009 14:56:46 GMT
you mean uni-caster? I don't see much tanking using a harp and with a 60 ab
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Post by gandoron on Apr 20, 2009 15:22:58 GMT
It's a uni tank not a uni damage dealer. 140 AC, 85% (with ring) conceal making str and dex checks. Sounds pretty tough to me.
-G
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Post by starlandra on Apr 20, 2009 17:03:02 GMT
yeah I was talking to him about it last night... really hate my bard and was thinking going caster instead of str and he mentioned this build... looks really nice actually
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Post by gandoron on Apr 20, 2009 17:54:22 GMT
I believe pure caster bards provide overall better value to the party.
A bard was my 2nd character on this server, based on the original Sheinja's Muse. At one point about 60% of all my hell runs had been as playing a bard. I reincarnated about 4 months ago dropping to 62 cha (had two free epic feats, and 62 is another possum) and 6 epics (adding healing spirit and cloud). Barding can be a very exhausting, and I understand some people’s dislike of playing a caster bard. However, I still feel this min/max HG world caster bards are the best. The added value to the team from having more epics (number of epics as well as ticks/range of each), more spell slots (everyone needs to have clang/disp, etc) and a dedicated support role, is more valuable than any amount of melee damage done by a bard.
Of course, increasing str/dex for KD checks and overall durability may have some value, particularly in Ely where you can’t afford to run UUU all the time, however I almost never find my bard KD’d in hells.
If you can’t find yourself almost completely occupied during each spawn from curse/song, uuu placement (and pt2, which I use as a bard), taunt, cure scrolls (stf, mindblank, gust), wail of doom, bestow curse, mass cure serious, mind fog, and looting (in order of importance) then you’ve figured out something about barding that I haven’t. Sure you can end up with some extra time at end the end of a heavy pf/male spawn, but not that much. If you’re bored start playing with dirge (spell not epic) and rainbow pattern.
UUU/dirge placement: This is really one of the most vital parts of barding. With the past changes to add the inner circle, you need to position this properly. Most of the time this is using sidestep to stand right behind the primary tanks, so you can cover tanks and casters, or cover two melee fronts in the battle. If you are melee’ing a mob, chances are that you don’t have the most optimal placement.
Just my opinion.
Also, I know Kleb has a max DC bard that uses Phantasmal Killer, Dirge, RP a lot to add to overall party value. That’s another option that might be worthwhile. Currently, I like the 6 epic build more.
Of course, none of this touches on the players’ actual enjoyment of playing a bard, which might be higher with a melee type bard, but that’s a completely different conversation…the word ‘selfless’ comes to mind. =P
-G
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Post by mishimayukio on Apr 30, 2009 8:36:31 GMT
After playing in nessus, I'd thought I'd add a few notes.
1) In nessus you can not afford to be running UUU every spawn in the coil. Instead, wait a few seconds until the first jump, or right before it(takes practice to anticipate) before triggering UUU. This rule is best only followed after 1x or 2x demi, as there is a still a small chance of getting kded yourself until then.
2)Don't use UUU for single PFs that are going down fast and are under control by your tanks. If party is dex heavy do this for malebranches instead.
3)Bestow EVERYTHING with SR above 74, keep in mind each level of paragon adds +4 SR to a mob.
4) Follow up bestow with a wail of doom, especially on groups of trash mobs or on pitfiends/male/serpent/ichor/cornugon/osyluth after being bestowed.
5) Once epics are up, move on to taunting non trash mobs, priority given to the one your tanks are attacking. You can taunt and cast other spells at the same time, so feel free to combine taunt with bestow and wail of doom
6) USE PT2 before your kded party member has a chance to say 'kded' by watching where everyone is standing in relation to where PF/male are. If you see one jump, immediately target the nearest kded person with PT2.
Rules 1 and 2 can be ignored outside of the serpent's coil, I find that everywhere else I run out of songs and spells before epics most of the time.
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Post by jonuhey on May 8, 2009 21:38:25 GMT
I started reincarnating my bard and was thinking about what spells this bard would have compared to a normal caster bard, mish. You can drop most DC spells from the list, right? you have a list of the spells you are using? I guess it would be really good to play a caster bard with 139 ac and 75% conceal. btw, is that armor an echoes of creation?
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Post by mishimayukio on May 8, 2009 21:42:32 GMT
Bard level 0 [0/4]: Cure Minor Wounds Daze Flare Light Resistance
Bard level 1 [0/9]: Amplify Expeditious Retreat Insidious Rhythm Joyful Noise Sticky Fingers
Bard level 2 [0/9]: Deafening Clang Endure Elements Ghostly Visage Know Vulnerabilities Silence
Bard level 3 [0/20]: Bestow Curse Displacement Greater Magic Weapon Remove Curse Remove Disease
Bard level 4 [0/23]: Legend Lore Neutralize Poison Shadow Conjuration Shout Stone Shatter
Bard level 5 [0/22]: Ethereal Visage Improved Heroism Lesser Mind Blank Mind Fog Wail of Doom
Bard level 6 [0/22]: Dirge Energy Buffer Least Spell Mantle Mass Clairaudience and Clairvoyance
Yes the armor is echoes.
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Post by mishimayukio on Jul 13, 2009 21:51:12 GMT
I'm currently going to recommend dropping parry and UMD to 40, and putting 46 points into lore, so you easily hit well over the 127 cap. Also take Ice storm instead of spell mantle and any other useful evo spells.
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Post by Trazik on Jul 25, 2009 5:14:51 GMT
Looking for suggestions in regards to fitting in Legendary Artist feat: specifically, what to drop in order to get it.
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Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jul 25, 2009 5:49:05 GMT
Looking for suggestions in regards to fitting in Legendary Artist feat: specifically, what to drop in order to get it. Looking at the Legendary Level feats, you have 3 options I can see. Leg. Spell Pen. - You'd take a hit to spell pen for wail, know vulnerabilities, and amplify mostly. Those are probably my main 3 SP important spells on my bard ( I use this build also ) Leg. Spell Focus Illusion - You'd lose 2% conceal from Ethereal Visage, this is a possibilty because you're at 83% conceal (73% with Breach boots) Leg. Hardened Soul - You lose +5 to Will and Fort, to gain +1 bard song level and a toggable second song/bard config. Not worth it in my opinion. In all honesty, I'd either take Leg. Artist over LSF Illusion, or not at all. The build really does pretty handy without it so far.
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Post by bort on Jul 31, 2009 16:09:35 GMT
Is Listen for melee or touch spells? Cheers, -Bort
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Post by Vichya on Jul 31, 2009 16:14:47 GMT
It's for touch spells, e.g. for Amplify.
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Post by bort on Jul 31, 2009 17:31:56 GMT
It's for touch spells, e.g. for Amplify. Thanks very much for your speedy reply
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