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Post by dodrudon on Jan 23, 2007 7:19:05 GMT
More questions about shifters: So do all of the following stack with creature abilities? Or only the highest value? - physical immunities/resists - elemental immunities/resists What kind of buffs do you use before you wade into battle? The Mind Flayer's Psionic Barrier? Or is the enhancement value it soaks up to so low that it becomes moot at higher levels? And for equipement, basically anything with resists and immunities? How exactly do weapon damage types carry over to attacks? Also to clarify, you said weapon damage types are the only thing on weapons that transfer over, so feats granted by weapons and immunities, or on-hit effects or skill bonuses do not transfer at all? Thanks, sorry for the bother! Been waiting for a long time and finally got a Doppleganger to do a shifter with Also, I'd like to recommend the following guide: www.sorcerers.net/Games/dl.php?s=NWN&f=NWN/neverwinter_nights_hotd_shifter.zipIt's an AWESOME shifter guide and has basically everything you could ask for, and then some! Just reading it made me want to make a shifter (and waddaya know).
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Post by fragment on Jan 25, 2007 0:09:33 GMT
More questions about shifters: So do all of the following stack with creature abilities? Or only the highest value? - physical immunities/resists I happen to have tested the stone golem, with some physical immunity gear (55% or 60%, thereabouts) on, on the piercing kickback monster in harbinger's trail (forgot the name). 0 piercing kickback Regards. EDIT I maybe can answer some more, too. What kind of buffs do you use before you wade into battle? The Mind Flayer's Psionic Barrier? Or is the enhancement value it soaks up to so low that it becomes moot at higher levels? Natural AC doesn't merge. So any barkskin adds to your overall AC, because barkskin works on the shifted form. Your own should be +4, if you have a druid along ... well Also note that you don't need to chose amulets based on their AC value. I'm using a spell trap +10 Epic Mage Armor (e.g. on immo crown) adds +5 AC, and can't be dispelled. Invisiblity adds considerable concealment, which is very useful as you hurt badly when you're caught flatfooted. For the low levels, the druid buffs are useful, too, e.g. freedom. And for equipement, basically anything with resists and immunities? Deflection AC, armor AC, physical abililty + (STR, DEX, CON, WIS all +12 if you can), of course immunites and resists. Don't be afraid of odd choices. Been waiting for a long time and finally got a Doppleganger to do a shifter with Just for people reading this thread, UR races, BUR races are not at all neccessary for this build. The only thing +4 WIS gives is +2 AC and DC on mindflayer ability, which is easily undone by a wrong playing style, and you can chose forms a level earlier, which does not really matter. An early toon of mine was a human based shifter, and it was the only toon that *somewhat* worked. This is a very, very newbie friendly build regarding equipment and race choices you have as a newbie. Regards.
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Post by thedomicron on Jan 25, 2007 6:28:36 GMT
i personally think thri-kreen works just fine with this build. i've seen people with shifters turn down the anarch subby because it wasn't worth the cost in order to rebuild.
should you use the absolute best subby you can get? of course. will you suffer if that best isn't a ur/bur? not as much as the other builds. the shifter has plenty of feats good saves and great versatility. in this case, save your trading for the gear, and not the race. this build is easy to equip, but hard to equip ideally
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Post by cathedralmaster on Jan 26, 2007 19:15:21 GMT
Any changes you would make considering your experience in the hells?
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Post by sabregirl on Jan 26, 2007 20:24:42 GMT
Thus far shifters in general have been very effective in the hells. I haven't had any particular troubles that could be addressed by the build itself. In general though is seems to be very helpful if not essential to have a good shifter in the hells.
-S
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Post by cathedralmaster on Jan 27, 2007 4:49:55 GMT
According to the build on HG Epic, for Human Doppleganger, you recommend taking Great Con 1 at lvl 51 and say nothing about the skill focus recommended at lvl 60. Was just wondering why?
Wouldn't it be better to take 2 great constitutions (by substituting in great con 2 at lvl 60)? Alternatively, even if it is a good idea to take just one great constitution, wouldn't armor skin be a better choice than skill focus at lvl 60?
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Post by thedomicron on Jan 27, 2007 7:38:51 GMT
the con feats should be taken pre-LL, for maximum effect, if you want to take them, i'd suggest dropping prowess and skill focus, though personallyi think shifters have enough health...
i substituted armor skin for epic weapon spec (i think) and then i took skill focus empathy, lets me emp firebeetles w/ standard gear on. also, in the hells, it may come in handy as well.
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Post by mishimayukio on Jan 27, 2007 19:02:28 GMT
Actually for shifters epic toughness would be a better choice, as the higher con doesn't carry over while shifted, but epic toughness does. 2 more con would add only 20 HP by 60, while 2 epic toughness would add 40.
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Post by nohmask on Jan 28, 2007 0:20:25 GMT
A very impressive and thurough analysis indeed! Just something I'd like to see, chart happy stat freak that I am at times, would be the progression of "gazes per shift" and manticore spikes per level. I had played with just the minimum amount of shifter levels to get some fun, 10 it seemed, and it seemed that there were less spikes but I had no idea they went up in level.....a chart like this would be great, as well as any comments on why taking only 10 levels to enchance a mainly caster druid build would or wouldn't be desirabe (as well as if anyone knows anything about that druid epic spell you could still take if you had only 10 levels or so of shifter that does massive pos damage and slows for 20 rounds..is that with no save to slow, etc.?). Thanks again!
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Post by cathedralmaster on Jan 28, 2007 0:30:21 GMT
A very impressive and thurough analysis indeed! Just something I'd like to see, chart happy stat freak that I am at times, would be the progression of "gazes per shift" and manticore spikes per level. Check the book in the item shop.
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Post by nohmask on Jan 28, 2007 9:00:50 GMT
Ah...so easy to find...thanks...but does this mean as manticore spikes being Shifter level + LL /2 that if your control class was druid and you took ten levels in Shifter that you then would have 10 plus 20 (LL in druid) = 30/2 or 15 spikes? I need to scrutinize the logs more when playing with a shifter (in the party) it seems...the spikes must be grouped in clusters to calculate damage or some such? It does seem of course that a big advantage is the "touch attack" issue that ignores some sort of AC type stuff or something....heh...ok, I give up..back to the magic books! Thanks again, as I do find this build facinating in how it uses an anthropomorphized form of magic, one might say....now if I could just get my Time Stops and Bigby's to talk....hmm....
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 29, 2007 3:11:58 GMT
About skills, why concentration? Shouldn't your top priority be getting back to your shifted form? Also for open lock, the kobold commando form only gives +7, so the max lock you can pick with a single point is 28+dex mod, right?
Will Weapon Focus Unarmed help creature shapes?
Would you recommend getting EDR III?
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Post by thedomicron on Jan 29, 2007 4:42:39 GMT
creature weapon spec takes care of the creature shape ab.
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 29, 2007 5:05:22 GMT
Is a Dragon's AB high enough to use KD effectively? Would 5druid/5monk/10shifter pre-epic, then one more monk at 40 be a good alternative? Manticore and Medusa would not be affected, but Basilisk and Mind Flayer (but MFs gaze has an amazing DC anyways) would. Dragon Breath DC would also be affected. Anyways, this would prevent the multiclass penalty, letting you be non-human, as well as giving you Deflect Arrows, a 20% speed boost, and Improved KD. You lose immunity to poisons and gain immunity to disease instead, and you also lose one level of spells (but only the spell Death Ward really matters from that level, you still get Barkskin).
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Post by thedomicron on Jan 29, 2007 7:26:41 GMT
tbh i don't think you have enough ab to melee with any of the shapes. and why bother w/ kd when you can stone w/ medusa.
you are forgetting maybe that prestige classes don't count towards xp penalty, and there is no advantage to being non-human. furthermore, while the speed is nice, its not worth the loss of a feat. if you want the speed and the deflect arrows, use the thri-kreen subby, which is really just as good as the dopple, except for one dc somewhere.
trust me stonegaze > kd. if you want a melee dragon this isn't your build, although it does exist.
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