The Hand of Suffering (18 Sorc/22BG) - BK

[sabregirl]

Firstoff this is a Bane knight build designed primarily to make maximum use of Bigby's hands in legendary areas (especially the hells) as well as be an excellent damage dealer (and hopefully be able to tank a bit). The credit for the original level combination goes to Archmage, who I think, had the first Bane Knight on the server. Alternatively you can take a 19 sorc 21 BG combination at the cost of an epic feat and gain an extra 8th level spell. Useful if you like cast Greater Sanctuary vs using scrolls. However I believe the level combination below is the best for most players.

Starting Stats (after Pharlan)
(starting class - sorc)
STR 12 (18)
DEX 14
CON 14
WIS 10 (14)
INT 14
CHA 14 (18)

Stat points
all STR save 2 points in CHA

Level Progression
Half-Elf: (Hardiness vs. Enchantements, Low-light Vision, Partial Skill Affinity: Listen, Partial Skill Affinity: Search, Partial Skill Affinity: Spot, Sleeplessness)
01: Sorcerer(1): Blooded
02: Sorcerer(2)
03: Sorcerer(3): Power Attack
04: Sorcerer(4): STR+1
05: Sorcerer(5)
06: Sorcerer(6): Still Spell
07: Sorcerer(7)
08: Sorcerer(8): STR+1
09: Sorcerer(9): Cleave
10: Sorcerer(10)
11: Sorcerer(11)
12: Sorcerer(12): STR+1, Extend Spell
13: Blackguard(1)
14: Blackguard(2)
15: Blackguard(3): Weapon Focus: Longsword
16: Blackguard(4): STR+1
17: Blackguard(5)
18: Blackguard(6): Great Cleave
19: Blackguard(7)
20: Blackguard(8): STR+1
21: Sorcerer(13): Great Charisma I
22: Blackguard(9)
23: Blackguard(10)
24: Blackguard(11): STR+1, Improved Critical: Longsword
25: Blackguard(12)
26: Sorcerer(14)
27: Sorcerer(15): Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword
28: Sorcerer(16): STR+1
29: Sorcerer(17)
30: Sorcerer(18): Great Strength III
31: Blackguard(13): Overwhelming Critical: Longsword
32: Blackguard(14): STR+1
33: Blackguard(15): Great Strength IV
34: Blackguard(16): Armor Skin
35: Blackguard(17)
36: Blackguard(18): STR+1, Great Strength V
37: Blackguard(19): Epic Prowess
38: Blackguard(20)
39: Blackguard(21): Great Strength VI
40: Blackguard(22): STR+1, Devastating Critical: Longsword


Legendary Feats
Divine Shield
Legendary weapon focus
LSA Tumble
LSA Listen
Legendary spell focus abjuration
Great Strength VII and VIII

Skills
Don't forget 5 hide for BG in sorc levels. Max Concentration and Discipline, save points for tumble and listen dump after LSA tumble and LSA listen. Read the Abjuration book.

Spells
1st level - True Strike, Mage armor, Shield, Grease, Protection from Alignment
2nd level - Death Armor, Flame Weapon, Balagorns Iron Horn, Shock weapon, Blindness and Deafness
3rd level - GMW, keen, Vampiric touch, Magic Circle against alignment
4th level - Elemental Shield, Stoneskin, Bestow Curse, Enervation
5th level - Mestils Acid Sheath, Energy Buffer, Bigby's Interposing hand, Wrack
6th level - Tensers Transformation, Bigby's Forceful Hand, Greater Dispelling
7th level - Spell Mantle, Banishment, Bigby's Grasping Hand
8th level - Premonition, Bigby's Bashing hand
9th level - Bigby's Crushing Hand

Weapon
I went with longsword since I don't like scims for some reason and damage types on the available ones seemed very nice. Could choose a bludgeoning weapon such as warhammer or light flail but hard to get keens for DB version.

Saves
At lvl 60 should have saves of 66 fort, 59 reflex, 64 will.

Comments
Some may question the expense of the 9th level spells however the extra rung of grabby hands is very helpful and some critters can only be grabbed by 9th level hands (though must be careful not to use on things with area kickback). The spell breeches are very helpful in being distance spells that lower SR, enabling one to breech then grab.

He is fairly stable when properly equipped, though hindered by low HP and questionable crit immunity (before reincarnation he was restricted to a single cast of death ward) but this is trademark of most all BKs due to numerous sorc levels and stat point requirements.


Hound Archon version

"Hound Archon" (secret Beyond UltraRare; changes Appearance)
- FC: Paladin
- STR +4, CON +2, WIS +2, CHA +4, free feat: Extra Smiting, free feat: Great Smite 1, free feat: Power Attack, sr 10 + 1/lvl, speaks Celestial, speaks Draconic, speaks Infernal

Starting Stats (after Hound Archon)
(starting class - sorc)
STR 12 (16)
DEX 14
CON 12 (14)
WIS 12 (14)
INT 14
CHA 14 (18)


Level Progression
Half-Elf: (Hardiness vs. Enchantements, Low-light Vision, Partial Skill Affinity: Listen, Partial Skill Affinity: Search, Partial Skill Affinity: Spot, Sleeplessness)
01: Sorcerer(1): Blooded
02: Sorcerer(2)
03: Sorcerer(3): Weapon Proficiency Exotic
04: Sorcerer(4): STR+1
05: Sorcerer(5)
06: Sorcerer(6): Still Spell
07: Sorcerer(7)
08: Sorcerer(8): STR+1
09: Sorcerer(9): Cleave
10: Sorcerer(10)
11: Sorcerer(11)
12: Sorcerer(12): STR+1, Extend Spell
13: Blackguard(1)
14: Blackguard(2): {Smite Good}
15: Blackguard(3): Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
16: Blackguard(4): STR+1
17: Blackguard(5)
18: Blackguard(6): Great Cleave
19: Blackguard(7)
20: Blackguard(8): STR+1
21: Sorcerer(13): Great Charisma I
22: Blackguard(9)
23: Blackguard(10)
24: Blackguard(11): STR+1, Improved Critical: Bastard Sword
25: Blackguard(12)
26: Sorcerer(14)
27: Sorcerer(15): Epic Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
28: Sorcerer(16): STR+1
29: Sorcerer(17)
30: Sorcerer(18): Great Strength I
31: Blackguard(13): Overwhelming Critical: Bastard Sword
32: Blackguard(14): STR+1
33: Blackguard(15): Great Strength II
34: Blackguard(16): Armor Skin
35: Blackguard(17)
36: Blackguard(18): STR+1, Great Strength III
37: Blackguard(19): Epic Prowess
38: Blackguard(20)
39: Blackguard(21): Great Strength IV
40: Blackguard(22): STR+1, Devastating Critical: Bastard Sword

Legendary Feats
Legendary weapon focus
LSA Tumble
LSA Listen
Great Strength V through VIII or legendary evo/divine might/shield

Other information applies from Pharlan

Credit to Finchy for finding some bugs in the build

-S

[dodrudon]

Wouldn't Fallen Angel be a better choice? You get Strider, as well as both Divine feats, and the same +10 heal as Baseborn, so you end up a feat ahead. You get +2 to Cha same as Baseborn, but no Str boost and an almost-useless wis boost.

[sabregirl]

Well the heal is absolutely useless to a BK pretty much. The might and shield look good on paper but the way the stats are spread on FA makes it useless, with only a +2 cha and you need to get to 18 cha have 18 strength and decent con it just doesn't work too well. FA as a battle caster is best made a battle cleric.

-S

[sabregirl]

Updated with Syr'Kadamar's stats at 60. Pic includes Syr wearing once BUR hence the +1 ac over someone wearing all URs. Once hitting 60 has done pretty well, noticably better on grasping though as with most str types in the hells, good and appropriate gear is critical to staying upright.

Final top AB is 73 though could go one higher if I decide to use the STR artifact.

-S

[cathedralmaster]

How much of a hinderance is it having to wear mord and breach rings to avoid your buffs getting despelled?

[sabregirl]

I'd rank it as primarily an annoyance in the hells, its worse if you don't have an UR or BUR mords/breach ring but the areas of dispelling are limited and known. It's more of a problem if you want to try and hit things like hamatulas and gelugons while there are dispellers about. Nice thing is with this build you have the power to grab most of the dispellers before they can get you. Though usually it's safer to just throw the ring on since you are relatively vulnerable when dispelled. Elsewhere it's less of a problem though a real pain in ssith before having pentavite shield, due to necessity for water ring.

-S

[cathedralmaster]

Is still spell really worth taking with this build? Also, how do you do as far as concentration checks go?

[Acaos]

Still spell is required to become a Bane Knight.

Acaos

[cathedralmaster]

acaos said:

Still spell is required to become a Bane Knight.

Acaos

[sabregirl]

Since I max concentration casting in battle isn't too much of a problem. In the hells if you want to grabby hand something it's best to be aware of the situation and not try to cast in the middle of 3-4 hamatulas and spinagons or if you do be sure to flip on defensive casting mode before you do. But if casting while more than 2 creatures are threatening you (in the hells anyway) it's probably best to reposition before casting too much.

-S

[sabregirl]

Updated with new post-demigod pic, yeah I'm lazy.
After playing this guy all the way through the hells I'll say this build and BKs in general are very tricky to play. With fully functional grabby hands at your disposal it can be difficult to decide when to grab things, when to run up and whack things and when to sanc and throw out a BBoD. He was definitely more squishy than the average RDD type str tank but with the ability to control the situation to some degree, with hands, seemed to make him more viable that he would have been otherwise. Still, like any STR tank worth his salt, pit fiends are pit friends.

With the new SP/CL artifact out it would give an added advantage to this build in giving the ability to put on +15 premonition at least once per day. the other option would be to go 22 BG or 19 sorc and skip the monk splash for full CL prem. This is fairly tempting but hard to give up the 2 tumble AC due to lack of tumble splash as a str tank you need all the AC you can get.

-S

[cathedralmaster]

What would your opinion be on working in great smites into this build - namely through replacing great strengths for great smites pre-LL? Do you think it would be worth it?

EDIT: Yeah, just saw the other thread - bah!

[sabregirl]

Updated build with subby, spell and other changes.

-S

[sabregirl]

Updated with post reincarnation stats.

-S

[nicnik]

Just looking over it briefly, a few things i would change if i were to make one.

Level Progression Preepic:
10 Sorc, 10 BG for 25 bab. preepic saves unchanged, still 10 6 10.

Dropping toughness, combat casting and improved combat casting. for Great Cleave, over/dev crit. Or drop 2 str instead of icc.